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270

Chris Weber on the future of device branding at Microsoft

Chris Weber

Curious to what's going between Microsoft and Nokia over branding? Then you're going to want to watch this video of Chris Weber answer the question. Will it be Lumia? What happens to Surface? His thoughts after the break.

Right now Microsoft is working through with what branding looks like on future products. For 'smart' devices, like the Lumia line of smartphones, we'll see Microsoft be the master brand since they don't have the right to use Nokia on future products. Is Microsoft on the device? Is it a symbol or logo? Those are questions they're still working on right now.

Microsoft is currently also trying to figure out the brand for first-party hardware. Devices like future Lumia smartphones or future PCs or tablets from the Surface family. Will those be Lumia or Surface? Again questions that Microsoft is working through. Those who came to Microsoft from Nokia are obviously pulling for Lumia, while those on the Surface team would much prefer Surface. This unified brand for smartphones, tablets, and PCs will have Microsoft as the master brand, but beyond that everything is still being discussed.

What it's called isn't as big a deal to Chris as you might think. He's more interested in how they define what that brand stands for. It'll be very interested to see how branding plays out in the coming months for any future devices (come to us, McLaren) from Microsoft.

Should Microsoft continue to use Lumia on smartphones and Surface for tablets and PCs? Should one brand win out and rule all devices? Sound off below.

Via: @markguim, YouTube

Thanks for the tip guys!

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Comments

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sahib lopez says:

i dont like the how the suface name sounds on the phone IMO....i like lumia 1020 over the surface 1020

Novron says:

I would brand flagships surface and everything below Lumia.

Leon Scott says:

Next Flagship should be called Lumia 1

Anything lower end then should be called Lumia 1c, Lumia 1d, Lumia 1e, Lumia 1g ect....

Phalets would be Lumia 1+

Then next gen would be Lumia 2 (flagship)

Phaphlet would be Lumia 2+

Anything lower then that would be Lumia 2c, Lumia 2d, Lumia 2e ect...

NO. that would make sense. so, NO.

Skunkwurx says:

How about Metal Surface and Plastic Lumia... the 930 is nearly a surface phone anyway...

Personally I love the name Lumia, dont really know why but just great product name. but Surface fits its name better than how it fits together and thats saying something... I think they should use Lumia for ARM and Surface for x86. So a true Surface phone really is a pc, use the phone OS till docked and its W8...

uberhaupt metal phones! (or make metal bodies available! mm..kinda off topic :/)

andrewb65 says:

Wasn't there a story that the Lumia name was conjured up on the fly by Elop in a rushed pre-production meeting? Only difference was that Elop pronounced it LooMyAhh at the time even though it was spelled Lumia.

 

(I added that bit about the pronounciation myself, it's a total lie)

This. Anything grey/metal should be surface. Anything colourful should be Lumia.

Maybe "Lumia" could be their consumer-focused brand, and "Surface" their enterprise-focused brand.  This would still leave room for colorful Lumia tablets, and/or a sleek Surface phone.

 

Even though they'd both be running the same OS, they could be marketed differently and at different markets. Lumia = value.  Surface = productivity. Both = quality.

mrdoubleb says:

Yep, I've been thinking the same thing for a while now. While both brands have good quality associated with them, the Surface design has always been more business like, while Lumia is more colorful, the brand name is even softer. This could work very well.

The only thing I don't like is how they keep repeating this moronic company line how "Nokia Lumia 1020 with Windows Phone 8" is too long of a brand name. I agree - maybe that's why NO ONE ever called it that except MS when they try to make this point. Just as like no one says "Samsung Galaxy S5 with Google Android 4.x".

People have been calling these phones "Lumia 1020", even Nokia ads were just using the "lumia" + model number format.

If they just call phones "Lumia xxxx" from now on and add a MS logo to the back side in front of the word "Lumia", that would be enough.

Judge_Daniel says:

The guy made it sound like they will lose the numbering, which I look forward to. The numbers really don't work after a few generations.

gar216 says:

I agree. Model Numbers are also confusing to everyday consumers and slow brand recognition. Ex. 920, 925, 928

zicoz says:

I think the idea behind the numbering is actually really good, after all it is a copy of what BMW has worked with in the car industry for decades.

But I think they should simplyfy it more. by cuting it down to one number, so Lumia 5, Lumia 6, Lumia 7, Lumia 8, Lumia 9, Lumia 10.

 

Each year they release a new phone with the same name, but they can tag on an identifier that isn't used in the marketing same as HTC does with the One.

 

So marketing name is Lumia 10, and product name is something like Lumia 10 (Y14) for the 2014 model.

Edward Kang says:

I don't think Microsoft will name smart phone as Surface. The name surface are meant for tablets to show the different between phone and tablets.

andrewkeith5 says:

The problem is that numbers are sensible. Names are more confusing because they have no comparable meanings.
As long as they don't do something stupid like HTCs totally messed up One range.

saidas says:

The Surface models from the beginning haven't been just tablets but tablet hybrids or convertables and the SP3 microsoft refers to as a computer first with tablet capabilities. Just because the initial devices are tablet hybrids doesn't mean the Surface branding has to be restricted to hybrids. At theis point, Surface can mean whatever MS wants it to mean. 

Well it doesn't need to be called the Surface 1020, or 1520.

rodan01 says:

Thankfully they dropped the weak Nokia brand.
Although, the brand is not the more important, they need a good product, innovation, lower costs.
I understand it could be funny having all those useless Nokia engineers serving coffee, because if in 7 years they couldn't build a decent smartphone or introduce innovations, they won't do it now. But MS has to start with the layoffs.

Richard_Indy says:

WalMart called, they said your iPhone purple 5c is in, with all its innovation chomping at the bit for you to grovel at while it is allowing you to be in its presence...

Sonu K says:

Good one Richard_Indy..!! :D

In Europe Nokia brand is very strong. Strongest of all phone manufacturers. Millions of people wanna any Nokia phone over anything else because they trust in Nokia quality, and I disagree about no good phones or innovations during last years. 7 - are u mad? After n95, n82 and n8 were great, 808, n9, 920 and 1020 too. No advancement? They introduced best, cbd screens, best camera UI and quality - ois and oversampling, best audio recording quality. What outstanding technology introduced other manufacturers until 2012? Only fail was slow Symbian improvement and naming it burning platform by mr. Elop, but still Symbian belle was better than Android in 2011/12

eXus#WP says:

? Nokia, weak? No decent smartphones in 7 years? Have you ever tried theirs before telling this???

Xaphoon148 says:

Rodan
Please find your rock and get under it...

Tips_y says:

Actually, people across the globe constantly make a mistake with the "Lumia" name and say "Lumina", or some other name, instead. That shows it's not a good commercial brand name to have and should be changed to something else. On the other hand, people seldom make a mistake with the name "Surface" so it's a great brand name to have.

Also, people encountering the Lumia name for the first time have a hard time recalling it. That doesn't happen with the Surface name.

For future phones, they should drop both the Nokia and Lumia names for something else. Surface is a good place to start as a brand, but it could also be something else.

I know exactly what you mean. My co-worker recently bought a refurbished 920, and told me he bought a Lumina. He's the only person I've ever met who bought a Windows Phone, and it was painful to watch him mispronunciate the name.

Posted via Windows Phone Central App

venetasoft says:

You dont know the right people man... 80% of my friends own a wp

Hey, maybe he also bought a Chevy Lumina...

Jupast says:

Exactly...Lumia, like Nokia, is actually a word open to being mispronounced. I've heard people call it Lum-ia...as in 'Gum'.

Both 'Windows' Phone and Lumia would be better off being dropped. Hardly have much to lose by doing so do they.

 

amnesiality says:

Globally, it's stil easier to pronounce Lumia than Surface. Imagine a person who doesn't speak english. Soor-fats-e. I love the Surface brand, don't get me wrong, but they have to choose Lumia. It's much more "people's brand" than Surface.

maddentist says:

I'm not certain that it would be complicated to pronounce for non English speakers... As a matter of fact, surface is a french word coming form sur (over) and face (face) meaning litteraly over the face...

You, English speakers are pronouncing it wrong :-)

(http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/surface)

b23h says:

Dropping "Windows" Phone is the worst idea EVER!!!   We're talking about a OS with Live Tiles just like the Live Tiles in Windows 8 and to some degree the Xbox and you want to run away from Windows?

Nope, nah, no.

Ed Boland says:

I don't know man, I tried to show one of my clients my Surface 2, closed.. with the Type cover on it. "a what? Microsoft Service?" He had no idea it was even a computing device until I opened it up and he says "oh... It's like an iPad" -_-

hack14u says:

This is so true it's scary what Apple has done to people.

Provided them with great products, you mean?

andrewkeith5 says:

A name that isn't always pronounced properly (I have never heard anyone mispronounce Lumia, btw) is much better than a name that almost nobody knows. Almost everyone mispronounces Lidl and IKEA, yet they are still enormously successful. Millions upon millions of people use Lumia branded devices and multiples more than that know the brand - compared to the very very few people who have heard about surface and/or have any clue what it is. Most people (at least outside of the US) haven't ever heard of Microsoft making a tablet, let alone do they know the surface brand.
When you have a choice between a strong brand and a weak one, the decision should be easy.

trmnrs says:

People usually say Lumina which makes me cringe on the inside... But other than that there's no way to mispronounce Lumia

I agree althoug my mom tends to say it like: sur face which sounds stupid

some people here in PH call it LUMA, means old, it is maybe because we don't have any advertisement of Nokia Lumia here in PH.

Silent Night says:

I think they should roll out a line of similar Lumias based on the same Lumia but with specs according to what the user bases their life on. Eg. Lumia Music that has the 3D mic features and top of the line speaker quality, Lumia Game that has the best processor available, and Lumia Photo which could be like the 1020. Windows Phone has always been focused around the user. Something like that would take things to the next level.

andrewkeith5 says:

What about people like me who want everything? The 920/930/1520 series is the no-compromise option, and if there is a no-compromise option why would you get something that compromises?

I don't think "Microsoft" should appear anywhere on the phone... at all.

 

The brand should be "Lumia" or "Surface" or "SmartGlass" or "XPhone" or "XGlass" or whatever they decide to name it... but "Microsoft" should not appear on the body of the phone.  Only briefly when the OS boots up.

Kirsutin says:

WPOne maybe? =)
 

b23h says:

why run from Microsoft if your long term strategy is to have a unified ecosystem with Universal apps and a shared design language across all platforms?

Nope.  

I think Microsoft simply needs to ride high in the saddle and ignore any catcalls.   I certainly wouldn't mind at all if the phone's only branding was Microsoft and model designation.

Dk92 says:

I want a surface phone.

bkydcmpr says:

is lumia really a visible brand to the consumers? there is no "lumia" printed anywhere on the phone. many people including me just simply say "nokia 1020". check "about" in settings, it's saying the model is "nokia 909". where does this lumia brand come from?

trmnrs says:

Lumia and Surface just don't match. Lumia technically isn't even a real word so it would sound stupid as hell to have phones go under both brands.
I personally don't think the Lumia brand should die off. With it came a lot of reputation for innovation like PureView, PureMotion and various other enhancements that would have to become standard if Microsoft made it a new brand. It would be kind of unfair (not to mention fragmenting) for Microsoft phones to have glance screens, graphic EQs, sunlight readability, color profiles, etc. and competitors have barebones WP8 with enhancements they'd have to create for themselves.
Just stick to Lumia for phones, and Surface for tablets.

luis300782 says:

Keep both brands separate

chaduma says:

TILE only interface = Lumia
Pro/Desktop interface with touch/pen= Surface

ddewar10 says:

I actually really like this idea. Very good forward thinking.

lbcadden3 says:

Killing Nokia and Lumia at the same time could be a train wreck for MS. The only other play I can see is going high end/surface and leaving low and mid range for the OEM partners.

Ed Boland says:

You mean RT = Lumia
Full windows (x64/x86) = Surface?

I don't know if I like that... That would make my Surface 2 (RT) a freak lol

ben55124 says:

I like that except it would make me not want a surface phone.

DJCBS says:

Well those who came to Microsoft's mobile OS from Nokia *cof*me*cof*) would prefer to still have Nokia around. Or, if not, then Sony.
Now, from the point of view of someone who will never buy a single Microsoft-produced phone, I still think keeping the Lumia brand on the phones and the Surface on tablets would be the logical step. Breaking with the Lumia branding on phones would hurt them even more than the loss of the Nokia brand will already make them suffer. A Surface Phone would do nothing for them as Lumia is still more popular than the Surface tablets are.
I wasn't aware Microsoft was looking at building PCs too, though... In which case they should have bought the Vaio division from Sony.

By the way...Chris... No one calls it "Nokia Lumia 1020 with Windows Phone". Wake up! People call it "Nokia Lumia 1020", "Nokia 1020" or "Lumia 1020".

I have no idea why you're still around here given your blatant hostility towards Microsoft in all of this. But if we're lucky, Chris will dismiss your opinion as quickly as most of us on this site do.

DJCBS says:

I still use WP on my Nokias and will keep using it on the Nokia 930 and past that if Sony releases WP.

So now, please wait while I pretend to give a f*ck about what you think or feel :)

HHammack1 says:

Nobody gives a shit about your stupid hatred of Microsoft. I think you're ridiculous. Any phone Microsoft makes will be far superior to anything  Sony will make, just like Microsoft's tablets completely outclass anything the OEMs have or can put out.

The fact that you claim you won't own any Microsoft product is hilarious and ironic considering you're using a phone with an OS that's made by Microsoft. You're probably using Windows. For Christ's sakes, if you hate Microsoft and don't want their products, have a spine. Drop WP8 and Windows and any other Microsoft product you make. Quite frankly, you're a hypocrite.

DJCBS says:

You seem to be too damn stupid to understand the difference between being against the Nokia-deal and hating Microsoft.

Actually, scratch that. You don't seem too damn stupid. You ARE too damn stupid to understand it.

dkp23 says:

Dont think you need to pretend, you gave enough f*cks to respond to him.  So clearly you did give a f*ck

DJCBS says:

I can't pretend if I don't answer can I? ;)

Tips_y says:

That's because he's a masochist who enjoys self-inflicted torture being in this site, knowing full well that being here brings constant reminder that Nokia is a dying/dead consumer brand. Even before the Microsoft and Nokia partnership happened, the Nokia name was already a dying brand which the partnership slowed down but did not completely halt.

b23h says:

brutal but has a strong aspect of truth

camu says:

Sony? Not just no, hell no!

Sony (with WP) will be only way I leave Nokia or MS phone.

em1ke says:

I am with you, but if only they'll introduce WP8.1 app for PS4.

HHammack1 says:

So let me get this straight. You won't own or use a Microsoft product(you actually do), yet you want Microsoft to buy Sony's failed PC division. What the hell would Microsoft need or do with a failed PC division? Talk about throwing money away. You wouldn't buy it even if they had, because you clearly stated you wouldn't use a Microsoft produced product.

For a guy who wants nothing to do with Microsoft, you sure don't have any conviction to stick to your disdain for Microsoft.

DJCBS says:

Eventually I'll find out from where you took that ridiculous idea that I don't own or use Microsoft products.

Because my Windows 8.1 Pro PC running Office Pro, my OneDrive and Outlook accounts, my mouse, keyboard, webcam and Surface would actually disagree with you. So yeah. I do own and use Microsoft products. Plenty of them. You just don't seem to grasp the idea that one thing is to buy certain Microsoft products and another is to refuse to buy Microsoft Mobile (different company) phones. I would draw you a diagram but you'd probably not understand it.

 

As for the Vaio division I suggested them to purchase, I said it for the brand. If they wanted to build PCs they could have taken the Vaio division from Sony. Because they would be getting an established brand with it. Then they'd have Vaio for PCs, Surface for tablets and Lumia for phones. Get it? Want me to explain again?

aeonstar says:

What he states here is very logical. MSFT should have bought VAIO.

dermotf says:

So you know what every employee that transferred to Microsoft Mobile wants, do you? That's a good one.

Future phones will be designed and made by the same people who created the existing Nokia Lumia phones.

You do realize Microsft produces the OS right? Just checking seeing as you hate them so much.

I pity anyone who has to live with you, work with you or be even in the same building as you. I have never heard anyone more negative, depressing, angry and so full of shit as you.

DJCBS says:

You must be drunk or on drugs as you comment makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Unless you're an illiterate dumbass that can't understand English.

lienantchain says:

'i pity anyone who has to live with you.' Lol

benners76 says:

Curious DJCBS... w/o getting into specifics if you wish not to... Why so much hostility?

DJCBS says:

There's absolutely no hostility. Just coherence.

As a Nokia fan and shareholder I was against the deal. I voted against it. So I'm not going to support a company (Microsoft Mobile) that is the result of something I am against, with my patronage. And even less when that company is led by a creature - Eflop - towards whom despise is the nicest feeling I have.

 

I'm fine with Microsoft in everything else. I just don't and won't support their future mobile phones. I don't even mind keep using Windows Phone 8.1 as long as my Nokias work or there are other OEMs that come along, whom I trust (like Sony, as I said). But Microsoft's mobile hardware, in coherence, I won't buy. ;)

Tomasz S. says:

It's astonishing how delusional people at Microsoft are, thinking that regular people are referring to Lumia devices as Windows Phones. Literally no one does that. Not even Microsoft partners or fans. Every sane person in the world calls their Nokia Lumia device a Nokia or a Lumia.

Same goes for HTC owners, who use a Mozart or an HTC 8S. Nobody ever said he owns a "Windows Phone 8S by HTC".
That kind of moniker won't ever stick.

Similarly as noone ever bragged about his new Windows 7 Home Premium PC. People say they purchased a Dell, Lenovo or whatever brand laptop.

Ever heard someone say about having an iOS phone? Nope. Go figure.

Windows (Phone) never was and won't ever be a device brand. Get over it, Microsoft.

DJCBS says:

Exactly. Even Office. No one says "Office Home and Students" for example. People just call it "Office" simple.

This is something the heads of Microsoft never understood. Ballmer had the similar delusion regarding the names people give Microsoft's products.

I wonder what they think people call the Xbox...

schlubadub says:

@Tomasz very true. A lot of people are baffled when I can't help them with their Android device. I put out I use WP and have never used Android. They don't see any difference, they're all just smartphones in the same way that mac & win desktops are all PC's. People ask me for Mac help and are confused when I point out I use Windows only ("what's the difference?"?)

Sekyal says:

Agree with you. You don't call it the Nokia Lumia 1020 with Windows Phone, usually for me its Lumia 1020. As far as Microsoft naming it, I think Microsoft Lumia 1020 is fine.

Perhaps though instead of the number convention which I think was good at first but then with so many devices it gets hard to keep track of which ones are the newer phones. It makes it difficult to start from scratch with Lumia though, but agree if you discard the name, the brand will suffer.

I'm not sure the best direction for naming, but agree keeping Lumia is essential.

shmnz says:

F**k off a*shole nobody cares what u think or WTF u will buy. Ghosh! this f*cker is so annoying :@

DJCBS says:

I have the solution to your problems: climb a bridge and see if you can fly.

You're welcome.

blessthejon says:

People don't even call it Lumia or Nokia. They just call it Windows.

SmoothDog says:

Dude, you are way too obsessed with this Nokia/Microsoft thing. I hope you can move on and just let go. I really do.

Surface for tablets, Lumia for phones...there, "problem" solved

Schikitar says:

Yep, simple! The branding for both is already established, they should just leverage that and keep whatever momentum there is going. Microsoft Lumia and Microsoft Surface sound like two perfectly good product lines to me...

myfyp2 says:

Yeah. I don't see why there is a problem. There is no need to name everything Surface.

MrPhilicorda says:

Exactly. It really IS that simple. I don't get this unifying craze.

bobsentell says:

I think they should keep the branding seperate. It limits confusion.

My opinion is... it depends a lot on design style. I love both the Lumia design and the Surface design aesthetic, and I think there is room for both. Now that the Lumia 500-600 lines are so well established in the low-to-mid range, I'd go with Lumia for the "value" market and Surface for the "premium" market (ie. high end). Surface can be the 900-1000-1500 lines and adopt all the high-end features and a Surface design style. I hope Chris reads this site and takes some of our opinions to heart. Looking forward to what's coming down the road.

On another note, regarding on-device branding... I've always been a "clean" design guy. I don't mind seeing the Microsoft logo or Windows logo but that's it. No text except if required.

eric12341 says:

Sounds good to me

Leaf81 says:

I agree, I'm increasingly beginning to think that Lumia will be positioned as the anti-android, some high end, but mostly low end. Surface on the other hand, may become the anti-apple, premium/high end computers and tablet(and maybe phones)

That's a good positioning plan.

Techywarrior says:

At the moment there is only one overlapping product. Not sure it's that bad to keep the two separate. Although, if people don't assocate Lumia with MS then they could actually have a problem if/when Nokia re-enters the market. Remember early on people associated Lumia with WP7 without realizing WP7 was a MS OS?

DJCBS says:

Actually that's a good point regarding the reentering of Nokia on the market. Though think Nokia would use their traditional naming conventions (the "Asha" "Belle" and "Lumia" stuff where recent inventions. Nokia normally only used numbers and in some cases a letter) there could probably be a bit of a clash. So maybe Microsoft may want to phase out the Lumia branding... Because any return of Nokia will be to the smartphone market only and the Lumia happens to be a smartphone brand anyway.

HHammack1 says:

Nokia is not going to re-enter the market. They don't have any employees to design or make the phones anymore. How are they going to re-enter the market with no work force? Nokia is going to have enough trouble surviving on what they have. There's a reason Nokia got out of the phone business, because it was the only way for them to survive. Eventually they would have gone bankrupt, and I still think they're going to fold before it's all said and done. I hope not for their sake, but I don't think they can survive on what's left.

"Remember early on people associated Lumia with WP7 without realizing WP7 was a MS OS?"

People know what OS they're buying when they buy a phone.

DJCBS says:

"They don't have any employees to design or make the phones anymore. How are they going to re-enter the market with no work force?"

 

One word: Jolla.

 

"Nokia is going to have enough trouble surviving on what they have. "

All their current divisions reported profits. Also, Nokia's re-enterence in the phone business doesn't need to be in the scale that they had before. Not only would dumbphones and feature phones be dropped in favour of only smartphones, they could opt to stick to markets where their brand holds power and value like Europe and India, and ditch markets where that doesn't happen like the US.

 

"People know what OS they're buying when they buy a phone."

You should go out one day and talk to employees in stores. Or to common people in the street and ask them that. You'd be surprised by the huge amounts of people who have no idea what the heck is "iOS" or "Android" or "Windows Phone 8".

I was looking for a basketball legend and then I get this.

karelj says:

Hah hah hah....same thought sent through my mind.

Posted via the WPC App for Android!

Haha, he's spelled with a double B! 

edrichcyster says:

My only concern is how strong the Nokia and Lumia brands have become and Microsoft having to reestablish a known and trusted name. Nokia built up a reputation of build quality and design excellence, while for example Surface is yet to gain the same traction. As a Nokia fan and a WP fan, I'll continue to support the old Nokia device businesses/line, but what about the layman? Will they look to a trusted name..?

DJCBS says:

Chances are, they won't. Must people I know that bought Lumias only did it because they were Nokia. And they still held respect for the brand that gave to many of them the first phone. Most of them didn't even know the OS was Microsoft's before they bought the phone.
Next time they search for a phone, they'll look for brands they already trust. Unless Microsoft sells the phones dirt cheap... Which doesn't happen to the Surface thus making it hard to create a good relationship with new consumers.

HHammack1 says:

Oh God, shut the hell up and take your Nokia worshipping somewhere else.  You don't know squat. You're just a little troll.

DJCBS says:

Why don't YOU take your useless comments elsewhere? You have absolutely NO clue how the market works, you have no clue how consumer-relationships work...you probably can't even tie your own shoelaces. Grow up, kid. You're as useful here as a wart.
 

Residing says:

Agree with you, DJCBS.  I was interested in the WP OS since 2010, but refused to give my money to HTC, Samsung, or LG (considered the Dell Venue Pro, though).

 

I have a Lumia 900 and 1020, but if the Lumia 930 will be the last branded Nokia, then I may just purchase the Lumia 930, and call it a day with WP.

shmnz says:

What are you his clone or his fake id ??

DJCBS says:

No you idiot, he/she is just one of the many many people that came to WP because of Nokia. The day you learn that inconvenient true, you'll be a little less dumb.

Credo93 says:

Jup, i have to agree, and there are many fanboys here that can't agree because they are simple minded, but i also use Windows Phone because of Nokia. Now that Nokia is 'gone', i will switch to Android, but will still use my beautiful 920. Galaxy S5 here i come ! :) 

b23h says:

Life is rough, eh?   If you reject HTC, Samsung and LG out of hand one would think you're not going to Android next.   Apple bound??

Personally I just don't see myself moving off of WP, period.

Personally, Apple is the only place I would go. I've used iPhones before, and always liked the UX. Android is a joke of a UX. My girlfriend has used Android for years and has never gotten more than a year out of a phone before its rendered useless due to lack of updates.

The last one was because Motorola wasn't going to push out a baseband update for Verizon. She gave up and went with a Lumia Icon because she can use the Preview for Developers to end run around the carrier to get updates.

Android is a fancy toy, but I don't consider it to be serious piece of software, honestly. Nothing that janky can be trusted.

HHammack1 says:

If Nokia was such a strong brand, then why were they close to going bankrupt, and why did they sell the OEM division to Microsoft.

There is no doubt the phones that Microsoft makes will be as good, if not better than what Nokia put out. Microsoft really didn't even need Nokia's phone division to do that.

hack14u says:

WP was a last ditch effort for Nokia, remember they are still well regarded for Symbian which is still in widespread use. Many people question why they didn't go Android and take the bank.

b23h says:

"Take the bank" is a very optimistic characterization of what would have been Nokia's late entry into an already crowded Android market dominated by Samsung and at that point HTC.

As far as DJCBS's anecdoctal analysis of how many people came to WP simply because of Nokia, I'll refer back to the anecdoctal part of my statement.   I wonder if he is still going to yakking at us when his last "purebred" Nokia passes into the next life or becomes sufficiently obsolete.

Part of this is no doubt because he is European, personally my favorite brand was always Motorola.  A US company* for a US guy.   However I do appreciate what I see of Nokia's build quality.   The few teardowns of Nokia devices I've seen always seem to be designed with a certain simple grace if you will in comparison to the cacophony of HTC designs.

Microsoft as a OEM clearly can make mistakes, however given a few iterations they usually fix the issues and with their absorption of Nokia's Devices and Services team I really am looking forward to their products.

*Screw you Google and lenovo

edrichcyster says:

The problem for Nokia was the slow development of Symbian in the latter stages of its life compared to Android. Not Nokia's presence or lack of people identifying with the brand. If at the stage of releasing the N97 they added more internal storage and had something comparable to Belle OS loaded, it would have been able to fend off the HTC Desire etc. People are attacking DJCBS but he's actually right about what went wrong for Nokia. Microsoft is not the antichrist though and seems to be keen to retain what made Nokia good. I just hope they somehow find a way to improve marketing. Windows Phone is growing in South Africa, but marketing is the issue, not MS or Windows Phone as a brand.

JoRdaNeK says:

I love the fact that they are considering unifying the brand as "surface" and although I'm Nokia through and through, I'm kinda up for the change now, maybe Lumias should be fun, camera orientated, colorful phones and Surface are stylish, sophisticated business type devices? Who knows anyway, just glad that this matters to them like it does to us :)

sip1995 says:

LUMIA for the phones...

IceDree says:

Keep them separate ... The Surface line is building a name & reputation for it self ... Killing it now would be a mistake ... Think Infiniti.
Kinda same with Lumia ... But from what I heard ... Microsoft is not particularly fond of it ... Either way, I hope they drop the numbers ... One thing I always hated about Nokia ... It's the damn names.

I hope it will still be Lumia. The full name could be Microsoft Lumia 1020 for instance, but of course nobody will spell the whole name ;)

Kenny Pea says:

As long as they get rid of the number system, I'm fine.

I agree.  The numbering system just reminds people who bought a budget phone that they bought the "cheaper one."  Since most consumers are buying the cheaper models anyway, why not reward them with a cool name, like the "Lumia Icon," etc.?

Kram Sacul says:

Names like Icon are generic and don't tell you a damn thing. At least with the numbering system you could usually figure out where it fit in the scheme of things.

John Morris6 says:

Lumia for the colourful devices surface for rest

spaceOpia1 says:

I think Lumia should be dropped, since it represents another era. Maybe a new brand for the phones?? And also drop the numbers and give them classy or funky names!!

theefman says:

Microsoft's name is mud with consumers, the best option is to keep their name as far away as possible from any new smartphones. Keep Lumia for phones, leave surface for their tablets.

Residing says:

Agree.  I will NEVER buy a phone with the word 'Microsoft' etched or branded anywhere on it, despite how much I enjoy using the WP OS.

hack14u says:

Other than the fact that it's too big for a phone, why not? To me it's like telling Google to F Off.

jlzimmerman says:

So you would short-change yourself in spite of a 1" word graphed on your phone?

larry213 says:

Lumia for low to mid range surface for high end?

ortizang says:

I don't mind how they name the future devices. What I like is the OS and UI in windows phones. I do nothing by getting a phone for a name!

awneze says:

If u know what's good for u, then leave that Lumia brand, u can call it surface Lumia, Microsoft Lumia, Xbox Lumia or Kinect Lumia for all we care, but losing that Lumia brand at such an early stage would be the dumbest thing Microsoft's ever done. Introducing a different brand from Lumia would make ppl believe its yet another phone/playform tryna penetrate the market. Microsoft doesn't need that confusion right now. They need to focus on innovation to increase market share, maybe when they hit above 10% then they can think of a new name

b23h says:

I'm not quite sure that Lumia is as critical as you think.   We are talking about Windows Phone here which people would immediately associate with Microsoft.   If the phone was simply branded Microsoft it's not as though people would think this is a new OS or new company trying to enter the market.  

While I am not so sure about the Surface branding, I must say I so much like the idea of a MMO vapormag phone that I'm tempted to hope for consolidation under the Surface brand.

At the end of the day though I don't care about the branding but only about the design, features and aesthetic quality of the phone.   That's given the branding is not outrageously stupid.

Duduosf says:

If ain't broken, don't fix it, guys. Alas, I only wish the name Nokia would still be on future devices... Sigh.

myfyp2 says:

"If ain't broken, don't fix it" 

But this is Microsoft. 

Before I saw the photo I thought it was gonna be Chris Weber, ex NBA player! Still, interesting article.

Nah, just call it: 'Surface' and 'Surface Phone'. I never liked the name Lumia. Surface has to be the name for mobile devices.

WilsonBlaze says:

Make that prototype surface phone and I'm in

PepperdotNet says:

"Surface" made sense when it was a conference table, or something that hangs on a wall. I love my Surface Pro but the name is weird.

I'm not in love with it either.  I think "SmartGlass" would've been a better name for a tablet or phone.

b23h says:

sorry, but eww...

b23h says:

I bet you are right that is where the brand name came from and I share your hesitancy about it.

Anubis4574 says:

I say: Lumia Phones, Surface Tablets. However, let's have some cool SurfacePhones made of magnesium!! Coolness would await.

b23h says:

+920

a lot of us are interested in that....

mango.lover says:

Everything should be Zune ;-)

dkp23 says:

Need unified MS branding, lumia at some point needs to go.  Nokia's brand has a lot of history, but look at the marketshare of windows phone, if it hurts the platfomr which is already hurting, the impact of labeling something other than a lumia wont negatively impact enough to matter much. 

Lumia is NOkia's device, if the nokia hardware dept is now MS, they should go with new MS branding, whatever that is.

sanshiro says:

I sorta agree, but Microsoft needs to build a tablet and a phone brand. They cannot be "Microsoft" because that brand carries certain meanings and would not move units. The brand also needs to be different for phones and tables. 

They already called their tablets "Surface", so calling the phones "Surface" or "Surface Phone" would be inadequate. They need a new phone brand and Lumia is already theirs. They could also make up a new phone brand and start fresh with new marketing (and after a $6B investment it wouldn't be a bad idea). 

 

b23h says:

But again, the OS is called Windows Phone.   You can't have it both ways.   You can't refer to Windows while running away from being Microsoft.   Microsoft's long term goal is a unification of their ecosystem across all their platforms, there's no point in being Janus faced with the WP part of the ecosystem.

 

coolbreeze78 says:

One monster specced flagship phone per year = Surface Phone. NTrig pen for business attraction. VaporMG construction in muted silver or black. Keep it professional.

All others Microsoft Lumia Phone. Playful colors. For everyone.
Would really help strengthen the Surface brand. The SP3 is going to take over the world. You watch.

Posted via Windows Phone Central App

b23h says:

I am not in the industry and so really don't know what the hell I'm talking about and if there is problems with your idea.   However given that huge caveat I really tend to agree with you.   I don't necessarily see a problem with the flagship being a Surface vapormg device as you state and your idea of the colorful polycarbonate Lumias.  

Although you'd probably want to have a flagship polycarbonate Lumia as well for those not interested in a vapormg.

truthsforme says:

Keep Lumia for smartphones. Get rid of the numbers. Only have 3 lines - high end, mid range, low end. High end: Lumia Pro. Mid range: Lumia. Low end: Lumia...mini? For the very specific lines, like the 1020 (mid range specs, top of the line camera), give it Lumia and any other moniker that relates to what exactly makes that product very specific and niche. So Lumia pixel, eye, focus, photon, etc.

Ken Heslip says:

I guess the name "Sumia" is out?

sanshiro says:

Surface for tablets. "Surface" is placed on the back of tablets. 

Lumia for phones. "Lumia" is on the front, top left or right. Carl-Zeiss on the back next to the camera lens. No carrier logo or name. 

No Microsoft name anywhere, just like Surface or Xbox. At most, a Windows logo etched on the back of Lumias and Surfaces. 

 

StirItUp says:

XPHONE!!!! is the way to go. Keep Surface for the tablets. We have XBOX video, XBOX music. Go for it MS. Or maybe the MS PHONE. I don't care about the name. Just want a good phone.

XPhone is pretty cool.  Or XGlass for tablets?

osars ehi says:

Xtab for tablets

eyesoreM says:

Surfia© or Lumace©

Sounds like they use 3D sound in video

crise says:

Surmia
Lumface
Facemia
Lumsur
Surlum
Facelum
Miaface
Miasur
-_-

Shiawian says:

Indeed Lumface would be good...

xankazo says:

Keep both separates and please drop the ridiculous numbering. For many people it's a little confusing understanding that the Lumia 720 is more advanced than the Lumia 900.

Viipottaja says:

There is no need for one brand accross both phones and tablets. Lumia is by now well known globally, keep it. Build the surface brand for tablets to same level of awareness.

joelsilva says:

Surface Lumia for smartphones, for example: Surface Lumia 935

And only Surface for tablets, like Surface Pro 3.

 

Lumia is the last and UNIQUE chance for Microsoft. Without Nokia's brand it will be a mess! Even more at Italy and the rest of Europe.

Sachin V says:

Premium Tablet = Surface Pro

Premium Phone = Surface One

Other Phones = Lumia

Lumia for previously Nokia brand [or Nokia style i.e. colorful polycarbonate] devices

Sirface for Microsoft's own hardware

Which still leaves an opening for a Surface Phone

rogerhew says:

As it is now Microsoft Surface Pro 3 look and sounded so classy and premium, I am definitely getting it once it come to Australia.

StefEBear says:

I'd be happy to see Microsoft keep the Lumia branding

Lumia is the "Colorful' brand with the bright Polycarbonate cases, including consumer LTE tablets that have the WindowsRT based OS

Surface is the sleek Magnesium cases running full Windows OS and maybe even add a 'business' Surface Styled phone along with it

wizmagister says:

Surface all the way!

flybywire54 says:

The new Nokia and its 3 divisions is doing well and is profitable , I don't see them going back to making phones and thus I do not understand why they don't allow Microsoft to use Nokia brand name on new phones model ( none so far) .

blessthejon says:

They should change it to something catchy & cliché like iPhone 4, 5 or Galaxy S 4, 5, etc.

boxa72 says:

Microsoft Lumia 925 sounds fine to me. If they don't listen to existing customers they are tripping!

One brand, all products

Petjolak says:

If it isn't Lumia I wouldn't buy it, bad enough to loose the Nokia brand name. My next Windows phone might have to be an HTC. Surface has no meaning except when I dive.

dv220s says:

Surface for tablets and Lumia for phones. There, I fixed it. Lumia 2520 will need to be killed (and have pieces of it reused into future Surface tablets) or rebranded to Surface.

myfyp2 says:

Lumia for phones, Surface for tablets. It works. There is no need to have unified branding for the sake of unified branding.

flybywire54 says:

Well truth is that most people that got a windows phone bought it because it was a Nokia not because it had WP , more like despite it had WP... Of course things change and Microsoft is getting it right finally , 5 years behind ios and android . Anyway love my 925 and can't wait for 8.1 official release .

milfermon says:

The beginning of the end

I don't agree at all with his example. No one says "Apple iPhone 5s with iOS 7". They say iPhone 5s. Just as we say Lumia 920. They should push Lumia, and perhaps consolidate the models but they're exaggerating the problem.

Lumia for phones and Surface for tabs will be the optimum name.

Where will the Lumia 2520 tablet fit?

Byrese says:

That's a great question. I LOVE ❤ my 2520

CrazyQwert says:

Like some other comment said: Lumia for ARM based products, surface for the Intel ones :)

That's fine, until MS pop an Intel Atom into a phone...

Be good to see MS go with: Surface One for the top end business phone, Lumia Icon for the top end consumer phone and Lumia X for the mid-range.

Other OEM's can make the low end and mid range.

Robinsonmac says:

Don't care what they call them as long as they are available on ALL carriers at the same time in the US.  The #1 priority should be ending the stupid carrier exclusives here.  It's the single biggest thing holding back US adoption.

CrazyQwert says:

I don't think they have that much control over that. When you are the underdog like windows phone currently is you have to obey what those carriers tell you or you'll have a problem since they won't market your stuff.

Nokia5110 says:

FaceMia (faceMEya); sorry guys the name is gone just registered it, and a domain too.!

chuco187 says:

I totally think MS is hurting themselves here! The Lumia is one the best phones for WP 8. I hate when large corporations messed up something good. Make change better not worse!!! After all look at what change brought with the current POTUS.

Byrese says:

Your logic is so stupid. So we were better off with Bush. Is that what you're saying? Smh.

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