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70

Nokia to get initial $65M payout from RIM for patent use

Although the stock market as a whole is down due to America’s ongoing blowhard budget bickering, we think investors have yet another good reason to buy Nokia (which is down today 3%). RIM will reportedly make an initial payment of $65 million to Nokia for their WLAN patent settlement from a few weeks back.

The settlement came after Nokia brought a complaint against RIM in U.S., United Kingdom and Canada claiming RIM was in violation of WLAN patents. The case went to arbitration and was found to be in favor of Nokia, resulting in an undisclosed settlement. Now information of the initial lump sum came forward via RIM's 6-K filing to the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, in addition “ongoing payments” for the right to use Nokia’s tech will also be provided.

Say what you will about Nokia but the company does have one of the strongest patent portfolios around and since money is tight right now, they are seeking to collect where they can. While $65 million won’t save the company, that’s not a bad “bonus” to add to the books at the end of the year.

Source: All Things D; via CrackBerry

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Comments

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jkarasch says:

Isn't that all the money RIM has left?

user4545 says:

Dont throw stones in glass houses.. RIM has around $3 bn in cash reserves.

jkarasch says:

Yes, RIM is fine. It was a joke.

You all should learn to read Finanacial Statements properly. 

While they have $2.9B as a highlight, that includes all of their treasury bills, bonds, notes, certificates, etc. Their actuall cash/cash equivilents on hand is $1.9B. Also, they owe over $3B in current debt, so $65M is still a big hit if they can't make the revenue to cover their debts. If BB10 isn't a hit then they are dead in the water. As it stands now, they are worth more dead than alive.

hwangeruk says:

Acutally the report I just read says they have negliable debt, and they also have 7Billion is assets.
 
Can you show your working out please.

Not sure what report you read, but those details are straight from their Q3 Fiscal 2013 financial statements, as of December 1st 2012.  Page 6 http://www.rim.com/investors/documents/pdf/pressrelease/2012/Q3FY13_fina...
They have almost $12 billion in assets, the $7B is in current assets. 

RIM & Nokia, two companies who in a few years probably won't exist as phone companies.

Nokia at least has Microsoft waiting in the wings a their guardian angel. RIM? They have no one...

user4545 says:

That comment sounds like you are suggesting Microsoft would bail out Nokia, not likely at all. A takeover maybe. RIM may not have someone breastfeeding them like Nokia but has patents and 80 million subscribers so i'm pretty sure that someone would be interested..

Residing says:

Even if Nokia stopped making phones, their patent portfolio will continue to garner funds from all mobile device makers.

At the end of the day, RIM must pay the piper 65 million up front, and will have to continue to pay Nokia licensing fees for as long as those BB devices are being manufactured.

you might not be knowing this and if you do i'll refresh your memory... Microsoft and Bill Gates Run two charitable trusts... One is the Bill and Melinda gates foundation which helps the needy people
 
the other one is called MSFT Chartiable Trust which also helps the Needy... But they are the needy Giants and Dwarfs of Silicon Valley and various technology companies worldwide...
 
When Jobs came back to apple and it had gone to Dogs... MSFT Charitable Trust Infused $150 Million into Apple... So that it could survive....

Don't Underestimate MS... MS won't let that happen to Nokia.. and Daniel MS is unpredictable... They might even save BB's ass... 

 

user4545 says:

$150 million is a drop in the ocean. Microsoft already pays Nokia $250 million, per quarter.

spyderzWPC says:

Did ms try and buy out RIM?  or get them to try and make Windows phones? and RIM said no

tissotti says:

That last statement makes no sense. Nokia's patent portfolio has been estimated to be worth their whole value at the moment and they are dominant force on patents in this industry (and in tech only intel and Microsoft have largeer patent portfolios) and have been the top 3 R&D spender for 12 years in Europe with 4 billion euros yearly.
I think in this USA focused forum people forget that Nokia was once Europeas largest company and was the Apple of tech from 2000 till 2008. RIM has always been small beans globally. 
Also Nokia naturally has way more phone buyers than RIM being second largest manufacturer. 
 
Also Nokia's 9.7 billion euros reserves (4.1 billion euros after depth) 

Bobert_123 says:

They have no one and yet they're sill gonna kick WP8's butt

jbrandonf says:

Riiiight. Lets get them to market first.

user4545 says:

Could be but Nokia will definitely go first. Nokia is just another OEM with the fate in the hands of consumers wheras RIM still has a big footprint in business and will likely ship quite a lot of the new hardware even if it isn't up to par in all aspects with Android and iOS devices.

hwangeruk says:

I dunno, they (RIM) shipped 7 million phones in a quarter. They might have to scale back the company, but their revenue numbers and subscriber numbers are still good. A lot hinges on how well BB10 is received.
I know people who won't move from BB cos of BBM, and many businesses won't move off BES either.
Nokia have a harder time, way less cash. Smartphones are struggling, but long term they need to make smartphones work.
They still shift over 70 million dumb phones per quarter.
So if Nokia just ditched Smartphones they would make profit :)
I wouldn't count either of them out just yet.
 

jkarasch says:

I think as more businesses upgrade their overall infrastructures, they will lose a lot of their business.

diplomat696 says:

RIM should have joined the MSFT WP8 bandwagon.......

Bobert_123 says:

HAHA thats a good one, why on earth would they do that?

I dunno, because BB is a dead platform, going the way of Palm. Because RIM is worth more dead than alive. Because BB10 has already failed and isn't even released yet. RIM is past the point of surivival. You BB fans keep holding onto the dream they will make a comeback..face it, the BB glory days are gone.

Bobert_123 says:

At least we had glory days (and still will), you guys have a decent OS with NO features that would make a person buy a WP over an android or iphone. BB10 isnt even out yet and its obviouse from what we've seen that it's already supperior to WP8... face it, WP wont even last long enough to have glory days.

I think perhaps you should read up on the history of Windows Mobile. Typical BB fanboy. No features? thats why android and iOS keep copying things that were in WP7 right? 

Bobert_123 says:

I have nothing against WP, but to compared to BB10, feature wise, is insaine. My friend has a WP7, and I have messed with it quite a few times. I'v played with WP8 and read up about it many times as well so to say that I have not read up is just dumb. I fWP8 is so great than why do carriers have to subsidize them so greatly? BB10 has better and more useful features than WP8, IOS, and possibly even android... We have Flow, hub, a great keybored, BBM, while you have that dumb kids corner thing.

Judging by your typos that keybored sucks.

Bobert_123 says:

I tend not to spell check when replying to comments like these :)
 
P.S. I'm typing this on my desktop...

TJWINS says:

I have to agree with this.  I've been a BlackBerry user for 4 years with my previous phone being a BlackBerry Bold 9900.  I sold it to buy my Lumia 810 and I am regretting it greatly.  WP8 looks beautiful on the outside but has no features on the inside.  The only reason I left BB is because of the lack of quality apps.  Otherwise my old Bold smokes WP8 in everything.  WP8 lacks basic features.  I cant even put a 2 hour reminder in my calendar since the options skip from 1 hour to 18 hours.  Completely inexcusable.  No customizable sounds for apps, no separate volume controls for different apps, live tiles don't work, skype doesn't work, facebook app completely sucks and the list goes on an on.  Oh and the Nokia cameras are complete garbage.  If my old Bold had an app selection I wouldn't have left it for anything.  BlackBerry is still the king when it comes to getting shit done.  WP8 does look nice but that's about it.

jbrandonf says:

What's wrong with your Live Tiles? What do you find lacking with the Facebook app?

TJWINS says:

Notifications don't push to the live tiles. Especially in the Facebook app and kik messenger. When I get a kik message the toast appears but if you miss the toast you're screwed. Facebook app is slower than a turtle and the tile notifications are unreliable. Plus I can't edit comments and cant see mutual friends.

jbrandonf says:

Their not subsidizing them so greatly, Nokia is telling them just as proportionally expensive. About $400-$450 is the subsidy.

BTW, does RIM still expect carriers to pay an extra fee to them like they used to with old Blackberry's? Why would carriers put their weight behind a series of phones that are less profitable than their other options? Businesses are dropping BIS in favor of Exchange and BYOD. Blackberry is going to have to change their revenue streams if they hope to make money the way they used to.

Considering that Nokia has been making phones for almost 3 decades, and have been around for a VERY VERY long time before that, I doubt that they are going to die any time soon.

abel920 says:

Exactly. They just hit an all time low for one year and everyone is already counting them out.

This is Nokia we're talking about. They have been on top for 30 years. They're not going anywhere.

People in North America seem to forget that Nokia is a global country, and is really popular in many other countries. Symbian, Nokia's older smartphone O/S has more international marketshare than BlackBerry. The world does not stop outside of the U.S. border. RIM has very little global presence.

Nokia hasn't been in the black, profitable, for going on five years now.  For a firm such as theirs, that's unsustainable.
I'd bet dollars to donuts that Nokia as a whole looks a lot different in twelve months' time than they do.  Over the next few months they'll either disband divisions and sell them off, including smartphones; they'll sell the company whole to a willing buyer; or the least likely, they'll go tits up bankrupt.
My money is on a break up and sell off, piece by piece, which btw, seems to have already begun over the last year.

Eddie_Lomax says:

Haven't made a profit for 5 years?  Where did you get that rubbish from?
From memory they made a profit first quarter last year, the issue wasn't that they were making losses, the real issue that their profits were dropping fast.
Its the same problem with RIM, they have been posting profits so far, but the issue there is their market share is collapsing and their profits have been falling.  Nokia took one route of dropping their OS and going with Microsoft, we can see how that works out (and the first year at least was painful with the changes).
But what would have happened if Nokia had stuck with Meego?  Well we can see more or less what would have happened by seeing how BB10 fares.  My bet is not too well, as WP7/8 is a good product (maybe BB10 will be too), but its required a heck of a lot of marketting to get it known and some momentum behind it in a market that is already established.
Is RIM going to be able to globally launch BB10 with that sort of marketting push that Nokia+Microsoft have managed for Windows Phone? As whatever you think of them, Nokia and Microsoft have definitely made sure Windows Phone is known (and the 920 is definitely in my mind the most advanced handset out there too, RIM I guess cannot compete there on technical merit either - so they have to go for other angles to attract buyers).

Nokia hasn't been in the black, profitable, for going on five years now.  For a firm such as theirs, that's unsustainable.
I'd bet dollars to donuts that Nokia as a whole looks a lot different in twelve months' time than they do.  Over the next few months they'll either disband divisions and sell them off, including smartphones; they'll sell the company whole to a willing buyer; or the least likely, they'll go tits up bankrupt.
My money is on a break up and sell off, piece by piece, which btw, seems to have already begun over the last year.

"Nokia hasn't been in the black, profitable, for going on five years now. "
2010 they still made a profit of 2 billion euros. That was the last of about 20 consecutive profitable years. Q1 2011 they announced their partnership with MS.

karelj says:

Everyone keeps making fun of RIM. I, for one, still view them as a threat to Windows Phone and people might be underestimating BB10.
Of course I am hoping the Windows Phone prevails and improves in the standings, but I would not be surprised at all if BB10 is competitive. Hopefully MSFT will add significant Enterprise level functionality to the OS soon.

aubreyq says:

One thing to note is that the name Blackberry is more widely known than Windows Phone, so when the general media reports a new Blackberry is out, people WILL be curious about it. When Microsoft makes Windows Phone announcements, it barely resonates with general media.

jbrandonf says:

Or they'll be reminded of the horrible experience of their old BB's and won't want to know anything about it. The name Blackberry may hold the new system back. I do view Blackberry10 as a threat but Microsoft has to play the long game and outlast them. RIM doesn't have the backing that Nokia has.

Cellus13 says:

Engadget is that way dude...

MastrMeatWad says:

@ cellus13- haha. Yeah. I was wondering how he stumbled in here too.

abe3211 says:

Why cant things be settle this way with other Tech Companies ? Accept the complaint take it to arbitration and BOOM!! No judges , No Jury's and saves millions in legal cost. Seems Nokia is more focused on innovating and producing some great products. pay attention Snapple.. ....

jlynnm350z says:

I make more than that a week working with my new iMac on the internet listening to music.

MastrMeatWad says:

Are you going to tell us "how" and attach a spam link?

jlynnm350z says:

Lol, that's not me. I'm making fun of the guy who always posts that. He posts it on every freakin thread I think. I think other guy thinks I'm him to. . . . But I'm not.

jkarasch says:

Every time you say something bad about RIM, god kicks a puppy. Be mindful of the puppies.

karelj says:

But Master Yoda says I should be mindful of the kittens.

dogfish54 says:

Nokia won't need saving by Microsoft. They are making sure that they have plenty of cash to survive. The finance folks seem to be doing an outstanding job at preserving cash; not sure however this is affecting the company internally. I expect Q4 to show that things are getting brighter at Nokia.
RIM on the other hand have just started their downward slide, much later than Nokia. RIM is a much smaller company and they will need less success to turn them around. BB10 needs to take off much faster than WP7 did. I still think the problem with RIM is they are trying to go alone, it's a bigger risk with a bigger payoff.

tbonenga says:

You're late. Microsoft already threw Nokia a bucket of cash and saved them.
BlackBerry will get one to if BB10 fails. Microsoft already offered but was turned down. BB10 is looking really good though.

Yes, Nokia was making a profit of $1.5 billion per quarter before Microsoft "saved" them... Not to mention the $16 billion cash reserves.

tbonenga says:

Nokia was a sinking ship. All the investors said it. Just look at their stock. Symbian was dead. Nokia was dead in the US. Microsoft saved them anyway you slice it.

At the time Microsoft "saved" them Nokia had a market cap of $42 billion compared to the $14 billion now. They were making over a billion dollars in profit per Q and Symbian phones were the best selling phones in the world. Sure they were threathened as the king of the hill, but they were not nearly as in bad shape as they are with WP and MS.
Smartphone sales the quarter before Microsoft "saved" Nokia:
Nokia 28.3%
Apple 16.2%
RIM 14.2%
Samsung 10.5%
Thats mighty fine for a dead platform.

What about LG,SONY,HTC,ECT ALLthose company that no one buys from much anymore y is everybody think Nokia and BlackBerry is going to die they won't ever go out

Nokia has 2 adventage that RIM does not have , first one is that Nokia brand means quality especially in some developement contrys like China that is one of the biggest cellphone markets in the planet 2) Nokia is bigger and has the help of Microsoft that is one of the biggest software company out there . So is not going to be easy for RIM .... maybe BB10 is good but we dont know if it will be that good.....

Aldoron says:

I cant see bb going anywhere, its too well adopted in the business world

jbrandonf says:

Thats changing.

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mangoose says:

Hey dan, please kick out this guy.

ejlee072006 says:

Late news again!!!

el_excelsior says:

Imagine a RIM-NOKIA merger, how weird/amazing would that be?
It's highly unlikely (impossible maybe) but I think it would make for some interesting devices and a great ecosystem. 

el_excelsior says:

You know what? Why does the media portray the mobile device market as only three places? There is room for at least 6-7, and would lead to greater diversification, no?

YorkieRay says:

I went to BlackBerry from several Nokia phones 2 years ago and I want to see both succeed. I had also been waiting for Microsoft to produce somethig credible in mobile. I upgraded this laptop to Win8 and there are a lot of things that I like and I also like the Nokia Lumia 820 especially. I'm sticking with BlackBerry though, BB10 looks like it is a great os with solid features, I also think that it is a potential game changer.
I'm very much in the A.B.A. camp, thats Anybody But Apple.