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Microsoft refuses to sell Xbox One without Kinect - will win the motion gaming space as a result

Microsoft has been facing a slew of battles with the announcement of its latest Xbox One console. The launch event was riddled with DRM woes, a required Kinect accessory and a higher price tag that Sony’s PlayStation 4. The company has backtracked on its original DRM mission, making players more comfortable with the idea of purchasing games for the unit, but questions about the Kinect sensor still remain.

Microsoft has confirmed that consumers can now unplug the Kinect sensor from their Xbox One unit and still enjoy what the console has to offer. Any abilities of the unit that take advantage of the sensor will be unavailable, but for gamers who just want to dive right in and don’t give a hoot about motion controls or voice recognition – there isn’t an issue.

The problem with the Xbox One’s higher price tag now seems like an easy issue to address – cut the Kinect sensor from the bundle. If Microsoft was to remove the Kinect sensor from its Xbox One package the price of the unit could be significantly reduced. In a recent conversation between Phil Harrison, Microsoft corporate vice president, and CVG, we learned that cutting Kinect will never happen.

“Xbox One is Kinect. They are not separate systems. An Xbox One has chips, it has memory, it has Blu-ray, it has Kinect, and it has a controller. These are all part of the platform ecosystem.”

Many may see this as a missed opportunity for Microsoft. Surely a cheaper Xbox One console would sell better and place it in a stronger position against Sony’s PlayStation 4 – but Microsoft says no. There are benefits of sticking with the Kinect sensor though.

In the past, developers wishing to release a Kinect game was a hit or miss situation – you never knew if an Xbox 360 owner would own the high tech accessory. With Xbox One, every owner will have a Kinect available for their system and because of this, we expect Kinect game production to flourish.

When Sony stated that they would be selling the PlayStation 4 camera separate from the console itself, they surrendered the opportunity to win in the motion gaming space. Many gamers would argue, "Who cares", but winning motion gaming is much more than just swinging your arms around while trying to slay a dragon or fighting the Sith with a lightsaber.

Kinect with Xbox One presents a completely new way to interact with technology and is a true step forward for natural interfaces. Sure you can game, but you can also control the entire console or browse TV with the gesture of a hand or a remark of the mouth.

Now that we know that Microsoft has confirmed that the Xbox One won’t be sold without the Kinect sensor bundled – how can they get the price down? Recent news has showcased that the company might be bundling free games (like FIFA for Europe) with its latest generation console in an attempt to entice buyers; if you can’t cut the cost of the console – add more freebies.

What are your thoughts on bundling Kinect? Despite Kinect being a central part of the operating system, would you want to buy an Xbox One without the sensor?

Source: CVG via CNET

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Microsoft refuses to sell Xbox One without Kinect - will win the motion gaming space as a result

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Agreed. They should not, can not deviate from this. They've already conceded the DRM and Kinect (unplugged) to the tinfoil heads. Enough is enough.

I completely agree Sam.  However, one does have to wonder if this will become Microsoft's "PS3 Bluray feature".

Since the Xbox One has blue ray now, I guess it was a good feature. I am happy no more 2 discs in the box.

Actually they put it in to ensure they won the blu-ray hd-dvd war. It basically cost them this last generation. It pissed a lot of people off. Now this time Microsoft is doing it and there isn't even a war. Its $100 for a feature that most gamers don't want.

They're basically slightly ahead of Xbox 360 globally at this point (even with one fewer year of sales), not sure that you can say it "cost them this last generation."

When I first heard that it was the reason why it was $100 more than the PS4, this was the first thing that came to mind.

Agreed. Though I'm scared... They've backed out of quite a few things now... This could be another, when the console is released. It's a real shame because all of Microsoft's innovation is slowly being reversed as people complain. This is hardly a "next-gen" console now... Just another 360 in my opinion. I feel so sorry for Microsoft. Leaders of innovation always wanting to try something new but for some stupid reason people don't understand change and growth. (Don't get me started on the Windows start button as an example). Love ya MS, stay strong.

I semi agree with you, but at the same time the PS4 brings nothing new to the table. They are now trying to catch up to xbox live. New hardware is a given and that can help make the games more pretty however the kinect and making the xbone more digital (the ways of steam) will make this more next gen then the PS4 will be. I just hope devs focus more on kinect now to make the game feel more realistic, then get the kinect with AR glasses ;)
 
 

The nice thing about digital games is:
1:you never lose them, they are in the cloud. Access them anywhere
2: no scrached, broken, or stolen discs.
3: no clutter by your Xbox

As much as I personally despise Kinnect, I agree that this is what they need to do to make it successful.  Hopefully the resulting bad PR won't cancel out the benefits.
 
I feel it's the same situation with Windows 8 Metro... they NEEDED to build it into the main build of Windows 8, otherwise the platform growth would have been so slow that they would never get any apps.  They have to take the punishment from people that don't want it for the good of the future of the platform.

Ehhh. I guess I'll be waiting for the bundle to drop to at least $400 then.I would have been willing to pay $400 for the system alone but $500 including an accessory that I do NOT want to use? That's a tough sell. 

Agreed. I didn't even realize who wrote this until I started replying. Way to go Sam. Thank for not saying "first!" as well.

Hopefully since everyone who gets a XBOX One will get a Kinect there won't be too many that will sell their Kinect for XBOX One.  So, when the times comes that a game uses Kinect that they enjoy they won't be pissing and moaning because Microsoft (probably) won't sell the Kinect separately..

I'm sure people would love to get their hands on it to hack it.  So there could be a market for people with a One that don't want the Kinect so they sell it to someone to play around with.

MS will be releasing this Kinect 2.0 for the PC later, they released a Kinect for PC a bit after they released it for the 360.

What's the point of selling ur Kinect. It will only work with Xbox one and every Xbox one comes with a Kinect...So I really don't think that'll be an issue.

They'll definitely sell the Kinects without a console, because what would happen if someones would fall of the tv and break? Or simply malfunction? They need to sell them separately at the MS store for this reason only, and I think that'll help to keep people from selling their Kinect, essentially screwing themselves over for the future of motion and voice recognition gaming.

They break or malfunction which is one thing but the other is that if you are a developer and want to create or test some crazy ideas you can buy old kinect for PC now. There is an SDK for this and latest added nice feature which is 3D objects scanning - really nice one!
So i think you will be able to buy new kinect separately as well... Unless it is so great in this version that they simply block this possibility - will see.

Glad to see them standing their ground on this. Just like with the start button on W8. Sometimes you have to do things like this because humans naturally are afraid of change.

Agree. With Kinect and all the features that come with it, the Xbox has differentiation, it's not just a PC in disguise. Sony may come to regret not packing in the camera.

When people said button, they meant menu. The new button is just another way to get to the start screen, so it's not a big concession. They aren't replacing the modern UI with the tiny box Windows 7 had or anything. They are changing the start screen to make it a lot better, but it's an evolution, not the abandonment of innovation people were clamoring for.

If it makes you happy to think that MS actually caved-in on the start button, go ahead. LOL.

Sigh, reading comprehension skills aren't what they used to be. I meant that since they didn't bring back the archaic start button from W7, they stood their ground like they should have and kept that away from W8. Much like standing their ground with the Kinect.

They usually allow you to just use the controller as well. However, most gamers need to get off their fat asses once in a while.

Motion control for most traditional games will likely consist of certain simple gestures, not necessarily jumping around.

They should sell it at 399 regardless, sell it at a loss to start with just like the Xbox 360. That way they would dominate the console market and make up the money quickly in game/accessory sales. This 499 price point means that Sony will jump ahead early and probably win the next gen wars.

Who cares who wins?! They will both sell tens of millions and will both have their own amazing exclusives and both will share a vast majority of the same games. They are both going to be sold out and in scarce availability during the holidays. All this early launch posturing is purely for the early adopters, who many of will buy both systems anyways. For the mainstream consumer they will buy  them once the first price drop comes or when they can no longer get their latest installment of Halo, Gears of War, Madden, COD, God of War, Uncharted on the older gen.

And an earlier launch, and a better online network (Xbox Live), and a number of other factors.  Price was one factor, but not at all the sole reason the 360 was successful.  The One will ultimately do well because it's a great piece of technology with amazing software to back it up.  They're *already* taking a loss on the hardware at the $499 price point - another $100 off is huge when you multiply that by 10, 20, 30 million units.  You do realize Microsoft has people smarter than you or me that calculate things like minimum cost versus projected sales (and a whole lot more), right?

I don't think they're taking a loss at $499. And if they are, it's very small. This system can't even to 1080p at 60Hz, it's pretty fricking weak, really. 
The thing is the XB1 DOESN'T have a better online network. In fact almost nothing about it is better than the PS4 other than the camera accessory (which they make you purchase for $100!). I have no interest in the camera accessory. At all. I think I will go with the PS4 until the XB1 gets alot cheaper. I just don't want the dumb camera for  $100-$150. 

I assure you, they're taking a loss at $499.  Between the console itself and the Kinect, the whole thing is not cheap to produce.  Your comments show that you know nothing about the new Kinect.  Describing it as a "camera" is woefully ignorant.  Try actually looking into the technology involved.  This isn't Kinect v1.  The new Kinect uses new technology that can pick up minute details in movement (down to fingers and eyes), facial expressions, and more - even in the dark.  Beyond the quite awesome voice control for the whole system, the capabilities for new games and apps are endless.  Anyone bitching about Kinect v1 games when talking about the XB1 hasn't done their homework.
Xbox Live is a significantly better network than Sony's.  It's reliable, secure, stable, and supports 46 million users with very little downtime.  XBL has been proven better time and again with Sony's repeated issues, security and otherwise.  And now, with the Xbox One, Xbox Live is backed by 300,000 servers (20 times more than today), providing server-hosted games, cloud saves, cloud-enhanced gaming, and more.  How do you actually think XBL is not better?  Microsoft is a computer and software company with more expertise in that level of services than anyone.  Sony's an electronics company, not a computer or software or services company.  They can't even come close... they're amateurs when it comes to online services and cloud computing.  And they're not catching up any time soon.
 
Stop being a fanboy and do some actual homework.  It doesn't even take much research to find this stuff, come on.

It's a stupid motion control camera. I don't care how "high-tech" it is or isn't, I have ZERO interest in motion or voice control. None. Nada. Zip. 

 

And the new PSN has pretty much all the features of XBLive. I really don't care about how many servers they have running in their data center. How does that affect me? 

 

Laggy "cloud-enhanced" gaming? No thanks, just put the extra processing power in the system like Sony did. I had 360 from launch day and only bought a PS3 a few months ago, I'm no fanboy. But this new XB1 just blows. 

 

And no, they aren't losing a lot at $499. $499 is a lot of money for the crap hardware the XB1 comes with. 

It's not just about motion control.  Seriously, read some freakin' tech news and stop making yourself look so silly.
 
No, PSN does not have all of the features of Xbox Live.  It's not even close.  Sony doesn't even have the server capacity or service capability to offer the same features.  The number of servers means something if you're actually able to comprehend capacity and what that means to a network, but clearly that's beyond you.
 
"Laggy cloud-enhanced gaming?"  Another check in the ignorance column for you.  You do realize that thousands of companies, including most of the Fortune 500, are using cloud services to enhance their business, right?  There's nothing "laggy" about that.  They get massive gains from using cloud services.  And MANY of them are using Microsoft's Windows Azure services for that.  Those services are now adding to Xbox Live.  This isn't some new-fangled technology, it's PROVEN tech in which Microsoft is one of the pioneers.  Try reading up on cloud computing.  The computational benefits alone blow Sony out of the water.  Simpletons whining about this clearly have no idea what cloud computing is about.
 
Why are you even on a tech site when you're obviously clueless about technology?  If you actually think Sony's service capabilities are anywhere in the realm of Microsoft's, you're woefully uneducated in this area.  Do you just come to this pro-Microsoft site to troll?

There's nothing "laggy" about that.

This sounds like a cloud-hype junkie. Most businesses don't have the same technical performance requirements as games; not even in the same league. And people aren't generally using it for anything mission-critical, if for no other reason than they want to keep hold of their own data.
Speaking as someone who gets paid a decent wage to do IT stuff for big companies.

It's not hype. I'm a software engineer, this is kind of an area of expertise for me. Your assertion about companies not using cloud services for anything mission critical is outdated. Many companies, large and small, have their e-mail, SharePoint libraries, and other content in the cloud. Many have critical customer data in the cloud with SalesForce or Dynamics CRM. Companies are actively moving their ERP systems into the cloud. The same is true for CPM solutions. I could go on and on... All of this is "mission critical" data.

It's also becoming more and more common to use cloud services to perform heavy computations significantly faster than a local PC can process them. This is being done in businesses now and this is one big example of where the cloud services can enhance gaming. It's not just about trying to render graphics (although that CAN be done as well if it's done intelligently - it's already being done in some mobile games), there's a lot of computational power available that the XB1 on its own doesn't have and the PS4 won't have at all. Those capabilities will only increase as bandwidth and data center capacities increase. Microsoft has already talked about examples of this computational power and a few ways it can be used with the XB1. We will see more and more of it as developers embrace it. Respawn wrote some about it not long ago with regard to what they're doing with Titanfall and they're only scratching the surface.

There are some good examples of how the cloud services can be used to improve visual effects in the article linked below. The things he describes are computation heavy and can be done more quickly with multiple servers crunching the data. Since the results being returned are numbers and relatively small data, this is very possible (and as I've mentioned, these things are already in use today).

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/05/how-the-xbox-one-draws-more-proces...

At $499 it will be sold at a loss anyway, as will the Sony PS4 at $399. That has always been the model - sell the console at a loss and try to make it back on licensing fees on the games, or - now - on selling games, apps, music and videos through the store. It's just a question of how much of a loss they're willing to make on the first iteration of the hardware. Later in the console's life it usually benefits from semiconductor process improvements, increasing yields from the wafer and reducing per-chip costs, and wider distribution of the other components.
 
Nintendo do try to actually make their consoles break even (from a bill-of-materials perspective) from the start. That's why they're basically a generation behind Microsoft and Sony - the Wii U has similar specs to the Xbox 360.
 
Even when teardowns show that the console is breaking even in terms of its raw bill of materials - as the new slimline Xbox 360 may do, and as the PS3 Slim was rumoured to do - there's a massive sunk cost of designing the console's hardware and software in the first place.

Most people concerned with price will be sticking with their 360 for a while, by the time they upgrade the price will be down.
Its not like cellphone where people are still upgrading from feature phones and have no loyalties. Most people have already chosen sides and will buy their console of choice regardless of price difference.
$100 isn't that much when you are talking about $500... and all the thing Xbox will do that PS4 simply will not.

Kinect is awesome! and the more people have it the better it would get.
 
but its good they are doing this and bundling kinect with every xbox one, no matter what people say, having kinect support in most games even if its a "simple" little thing like voice, its better for the gamer. or what if they want to use our heart or something? or our face! there is alot of thing kinect can be used for (NOT only for waving our hands and move our butts in circles)
have people seen what you can do with kinect with project spark? well its really really good! if it works as they want, it would be really amazing kinect support.

It was awesome... for about 5 minutes. Then I realized that you can't play real game on it. I hope it dies and microsoft optionalizes this POS.

It's bad so far because it was optional, so no one had it, so no one developed for it. The reason you give for why it should be optional is the reason it's not optional. They don't want it to be useless anymore, and this is how they have a chance to make that happen.

Why should you care when you're not buying it anyway. Just buy your PS4 and enjoy it and let others enjoy their Xbox One with Kinect.

And I hope they don't back out of requiring the Kinect.
 
I am glad the Xbox One will work if Kinect is not present but it should absolutely always be included.

ehmm they always said you could turn it off and use Xbox without it.......
but you still are paying for it. if you want it use it, if you dont, dont use it.

and what if you are in a game and ask you to use your kinect? Microsoft said xbox would work without it, but you dont know if games would require it for something essential, just saying.

I know it sounds like semantics, but they always said you could turn the Kinect off. The recent announcement said that you could actually disconnect the Kinect and still use the Xbox. For the paranoid people causing all this mess, that's a big difference.

I don't want to pay $100 for something I don't even want. This is why I got a PS4 and have no intention on the XBone at the moment.

The reason I went with the Xbox One is Kinect. I've only owned playstation since the original one released. This time I switched. I think Kinect will be the future of gaming. My 2 year old loves to play Just Dance on my daughters Wii. He doesn't fully grasp the idea of the Wii controller but now with Kinect he can move around and not wave a controller around. I think Microsoft is doing the right thing. It may be slow going at first but it will go while Sony's eye will never be more than an unused, lost potential. I can't remember ever buying any accessories for any of the PlayStations. If it didn't come with the system when I bought it then I didn't own it.

Yeah I bought one, meaning that I have it pre ordered. I put down $300 so far. Will have it paid off before release.

People can stick with their suped up ps3. XOne is going to be the shit and anyone who is getting ps4 is gonna miss out big time. I have ps3 and 360, but XOne all the way

I don't think I'll miss out on too much. The difference is the XB1 is weaker and requires me to wave my arms around.

Once again, why should you care when you're not buying the Xbox One with Kinect anyway. Go and enjoy your PS4 and let other people enjoy their Xbox One with Kinect.

They need to provide PVR for ALL content (not just their gaming DVR).
Local USB/Network device for all Xbox One owners, while Xbox Live Subscribers will gain access to a cloud-based PVR platform where they can watch content on any device with Xbox SmartGlass.
This by itself will add huge value.  

Multi platforms games( the ones that's actually pay the bills) like the cod ,battlefield,and madden franchises don't really seem to care about Kinect implementation so why should we? I'm sure Xbox could have built a small MIC and camera for so called voice gestures and silly hand gestures for alot cheaper because as of now that's all the Kinect can do and will do for a while yes in the future but for now u don't need it but I do need the controller that's why there's no arguing about that accessory

You obviously haven't used the kinect much and must not have seen the improvements made to the new Kinect. Its much more than "silly hand gestures".

I can't see any possible way this would enhance RPG's like mass effect. Even a PS move or a wii mote is a better choice. Honestly those games demand a mouse though. If all you want is DDR 2014, then yeah kinect is the best choice.

"“Xbox One is Kinect. They are not separate systems."

That. Is. A. lie.
Otherwise you could not disconnect it.
Face it, Microsoft is not willing to grant any more wishes to their consumers. And therefore they'll deserve every consumer they lose to the PS4 because of this. Stuborness is never good.

Yeah yeah Kinect's super inovative bla bla bla...face it, Kinect games are good for kids. And even kids don't all like to go around jumping and swinging their arms in the air. That's why the former Kinect and the Playstation eye aren't THAT popular. The only console who managed to properly be successful around motion sensored games was the Nintendo Wii. But that's because that was the entire point of the console.
If Microsoft wants to make the Kinect the centre of Xbox One that's fine. But they'll be competing with Nintendo and not PS4.

I personally already feel more inclined towards the PS4. The price difference is a big motive for that. But think about it: I couldn't care less for Kinect. If bought the Xbox One, the Kinect would never leave the box in the first place. So why should I give 100€ more for something I don't want? Exactly. I won't. If you force things they don't want on people and demand them to pay for something they don't want...it's obvious that they will not buy it at all. Period.

That said, since they intend to impose the Kinect on everyone (even those who will NEVER take it from the box), I think they really better throw in free games along with the bundle in order to justify the extra 100€ for everyone who doesn't care for the Kinect. If I see an Xbox One bundled with a free awesome game (like, say...GTA V) then I'll give the extra 100€ for it. Otherwise I'd rather go with the PS4 and use the 100€ I spared to buy games.

At last, someone with common sense. They're basically doing what Apple do, by telling their customers what's good for them -- what happened to freedom of choice?

They're not telling the customer what good for them. They are trying to build an ecosystem. They can't ask developers to make more motion games if many users don't have the required hardware.

Choices are a good thing and this new generation does seem to bring clear differences between the new consoles. If the price is that much a factor, then by all means PS4 is the console for you. I'm willing to look more toward the longer-term potential of Kinect and the inovations to come from those developing new and exciting games and features for it.

A year or 2 from now the 100 difference in cost will be pretty much forgotten, but hopefully the potetial of Kinect 2.0 will be on display.

Innovations from Kinect. Hah.

Wave your arm like a crazy person to start!

Be very silent as you sneak around! Oops did the AC or fridge just start up? Did your phone ring? Did someone walk into the room and say something? Well I guess you lose and have to start at the last checkpoint!

Fuck that.

Can't understand why you have trolled this article when you are decided to buy the PS4. Enjoy that and let other people enjoy Xbox One with Kinect.

Agree about it being part of the system.  As a core gamer, I couldn't care less about the kinect and it sucks paying extra cabbage for it.   I'll still buy it though because it will still be the best console.  Give the life of the product (6-8 years) that extra money spread out is nothing really.
 
M$ gave in with the DRM complaint, gave in with the headset request, gave in with the need-to-disconnect kinect request, and is giving everyone the ability to develop games on their own console.  M$ has done more than enough to show they are still top dog and is listening to gamers. 

I wouldn't expect these new cosoles to last 6-8 years. The 360 and PS3 are on their last legs and they launched with high-end hardware. These systems are launching with lower-mid range hardware. 

While I'm glad they agreed to all those things, I'm still waiting for them to unbundle kinect or for a price drop before I buy. I don't want to pay $150 for Kinect. (System costs $100 more but is also only like 75% as strong as PS4, so that's where the other $50 comes from).

You have already made the decision to buy PS4 so you can now stop trolling here. All you have said so far are all your personal opinion and other people have different opinion than yours so buy your PS4 and enjoy that.

Our opinions aside, I use my 360 without connecting the controller all the time; they're saying Kinect is as much a part of the console as the controller is. Just because it can be disconnected, doesn't mean the quote was a lie. Also, again only stating facts, the Kinect on 360, Kinect demo videos on XB1, and Kinect promos/announcements all state that the Kinect is so much more than just "jumping and swinging" "arms in the air," you can easily check out these additional benefits. One last fact: the year the Kinect 360 came out, it was in the guinness book of world records for (I hope I'm remembering the title correctly) fastest selling consumer electronics device (predicted to go to the iPhone that year). I'd say it was way more popular than the ps3 eye (sorry about the added opinion).

I hope you're one of them, bacause don't need anymore people who want technology to stay in the dark ages! I bet you still using windows 95/98 too right. At launch, they've alway bundled game in and in case you didn't hear it, they're also including a headset in the box.

A lie?
Clearly it was not meant literally, but as an example of how important they feel the Kinect is for Xbox One.
BTW - it's $, not €

You do know they don't mean it literally. When they say "Xbox One is Kinect" they mean, Kinect is a huge part of the Xbox One and they're using figure of speech to express how important they believe it is to the console.

Are you on something? About I shouldn't be here. You're going on like this site is some kind of secret cult. People like you give WP8 users a bad name, just like iSheep fans do -- pretty sad really!

Hmmm -- says the person who is whining like a little girl. Furthermore, have you got links to back up your irrational comments?

Go to Sony's own site, they mention that to get rumble to work, the camera is needed. You must read the little * info

I'd like to see a source for that, because it's patently untrue.  They even said that the new PS4 controllers have analog rumble instead of the off/on rumble of the DS3, and that doesn't require the PSEye.
Don't get me wrong...  I'm all in for Xbox One because PS4 is just PS3.5 to me, but misinformation is still not cool.

So true mate -- fanboyism is like an illness, and it makes some intelligent people seem stupid!

PS4 controllers will rumble just fine without the stupid PS4 camera. I don't intend on buying one either way. It's a stupid camera. I'm glad they're not making me buy one, unlike Microsoft who would force me to buy their stupid overpriced camera were I to buy the system.

What is stupid actually is to continue to troll here when you yourself said you have made the decision to buy the PS4. So go enjoy that and stop trolling here. What is stupid to you is not to other people.

I have no interest.. I mean no interest in Kinect. I have no interest in talking to my system when it's quicker to push a button. I have no interest in waving my arms or having certain games that I am dying to play, designed to only be played with Kinect (such as the mech game that came out on 360 and the way the "follow up" to the Panzer Dragoon series was originally going to be for the one. I also have no problem with them bundling it with this system. Would I like to buy a One without it, sure but I have no problem with it.
 
However, I don't believe for a minute that it  "“Xbox One is Kinect. They are not separate systems." That is a load of garbage and another flat out lie. they have also painted themselves into a corner with that because if for some crazy reason tis system does not sell well and they need to cut the cost. They will never be able to offer it without Kinect or they will look even worse. Though I know that doesn't really matter to them. I will say this They may say you can unplug the Kinect and use the system without it, but I totally expect that to change not long after launch. I can see it now, you can turn the system on without Kinect, but if you want to do anything else, you must plug it in.

Then don't buy it.  No one, including Microsoft, actually cares whether you purchase an Xbox One.  Tens of millions of others will buy it and will love it for exactly what it is.

Did you not see that I said I have no problem with it. Or was your desire to attack someone because they simply stated a personal opinion so strong that it prevented you from reading what that person wrote 1st. I said "Would I like to buy a One without it, sure but I have no problem with it" See there you go. I am simply stating I, me, personally have no interest in using it. Not sure why that is such a problem for you.
 
I also said that I don't believe that you will be allowed to use the One without it for long. Once again, an opinion and prediction I am personally making. And yes, Microsoft does care if I buy it. In fact they care about me as much as they care about you. Hard for you to believe I know, but it's true. At any rate, I will buy 1, I have been a MS and Xbox suporter since day 1, won't change because of this. I simply have no desire to use it.

I'm not and that's exactly why. Fortunately most of the XBone "exclusives" are on PC which is where games should be played anyway. I'm only buying a PS4 so I don't miss out on PS exclusive games.

Aside from all the gaming possibilities which are sure to come, the system wide applications alone, such as convenience of voice operation (system and tv), auto profile and controller login, avatar creation etc. are miles ahead of PS in terms of innovation. 

Let me go ahead and fix that:
 
"Microsoft refuses to sell Xbox One without Kinect - will win the voice control space as a result"
 
Google, Apple, they know voice control is the next battle ground just like MS does.

Totally agree with this article... PS4's eye was a waste of time to research at this point... They basically guaranteed that most PS4s won't have it... Developers will not bother with anything more than a few gimmicks

With the one possible exception: cross-platform games that support motion sensing on Kinect will also come in versions that support the Eye.
 
This could either have the effect of making the Eye and PS4 look weak in comparison (because it's not as powerful as Kinect) or it could mean that motion sensing support will be dumbed down to the lowest comment denominator (the Eye) so the developers can just do most of the work once for both systems. Hopefully mostly the former, but I suspect there will be a bit of both.

THAT is an excellent point.  If the Dev ALREADY spent the time making a cool kinect game.. (and it did well)...  Then it would make total sense to see if it was possible to do on the eye.  Sony hasn't advertised a lot for the Eye... I'm curious what it can do... (I saw the simple demo with flinging the cartoon characters on the screen from the controller and the advanced controller rumble.. ...  it seemed to feature the new controller more than the eye.   I also want proof in some sort of microsoft of using the kinect SITTING DOWN more.   Stand up games are good...  but I'm curous if I can be sitting.. and throw a grenade. 

Back to the point...  WebColin70...  Well said.  That could possibly make the time Sony spent creating the Eye worth it.

People will keep talking like this until there is that "killer app"... There were touch screens before the iPhone... There were GPSes before Google Maps on Android... There were video calls before Skype. We just need a Dev to figure out how to do it right... before it's compelling. Until then... gamers will just stick to what works... For example.. I don't see flight orientated joysticks anymore... at one point.. they were quite popular. I wouldn't dream of playing Wing Commander without it.. (yea I said it ... ;) ) Today? I could use a 360 controller for everything. Tilt controls... steering wheels... etc etc... Now that Kinect can track so much and the Devs KNOW it will be included... Lets hope the bet pays off... until then... M$ should be biting their nails.

"Audible - RED, 23, MAX" This will win over anyone that plays Madden.
"Flank left" There's your Battlefield, COD single player win.
"Display tire temperature." Forza.
To say that it's easier to hit a button, or do this or do that, is lying. If I'm tuning my car in Forza, it's a massive pain to switch between the tuning overlays. There are tracks where you might only be able worry about nothing other than holding the gas down for 5% of the lap, if that. Madden, if I want to call Seattle, I have to go through about three pages of menus and then scroll down for a couple seconds. Not to mention what it opens up that you wouldn't even bother with before. PC games will have stuff mapped to every key, this enables all those controls without a menu. Also, menu navigation disappears, you can go straight to whatever you want to do.
People have trouble realizing what the benefits will be because it changes the paradigm. Don't think about how it changes what you've been doing, look at what it will add.

Yeah, I was referring more to just controling the system itself. I understand the difference and in some cases (not all) benefits of in game commands. Games like Battlefield especially. Having said that, I still am not really interested in it much personally especially since I am not a multiplayer gamer and I don't want to be forced into using it, stil would want the option of just using traditional controls while gaming. That is really my biggest issue or concern with it. Much like touch screen controls,I don't like the option for non touch or non voice commands to be taken away. Like I said, I am completely fine with them bundling it. It's just not my thing and I hope they don't change their tune soon after and completely require it to use the system.

I could not have said it better myself. It's amazing how the naysayers are thinking so small.

Considering they sold something like 30 million + Kinect devices for 360 without it really even being very integrated in the system... I think they'll be fine.

I happen to know a couple people that are included in that 30 million in sales and they regret the purchase. They don't use it anymore because it is a complete waste of time. They prefer real games that kinect simply can't touch.

I searched the comments and didn't find this info there so I have a question. What if I already own a Kinect that I purchased for my XBOX 360? Is it compatible with the One? Do I still HAVE to buy it if I buy the One?
 
(I'm not too caught up with gaming news)

The old Kinect is not compatible. But don't worry, the new Xbox has the new Kinect in the box with it, so you won't need the old one.

catch 22, sucks that the one I have - though seldom used- is pretty much good for nothing. But if I do ever decide to purchase another XBOX it'll already be included.

FYI, the new Kinect doesn't use any of the same tech from the Kinect for 360, and has vastly more precision (down to 1cm). This new one is eons beyond what the original offered.

From the moment I saw them control the entire console with voice at the unveiling, I knew I wouldn't want the console without Kinect even if that's all it ever did.

I like Microsoft's decision on this.  Kinect is a major feature in their console which will expand it's functionality.  Give out freebies like games to entice buyers to offset it seems good to me.
 
 

By ensuring every XOne that come with a Kinect, Microsoft opens up a pathway for the developers to develope more ability to control their games. Turning your head and control the camera view in FPS? That would be fun.

turning your head...as in your not looking at the screen anymore? Sounds like a great idea to me! No in seriousness this is a stupid idea. The real solution would be the occulus rift. If you turn your head, the screen is still in front of your eye and you can still see it and the object you were trying to look at.

I agree with everything Michael says in this post, but I'm still not getting an Xbox One, partly because of the price difference (the other part is that I've been a PlayStation gamer since the very first one.) In the UK the Xbox One is about £80 more expensive than the PS4, and thats best part of 2 games to play on the thing when you buy it. 
I don't want Kinect. I get it, I understand it, I just don't want it. I can't use it in my living room anyway with the way I have my equipment set up. If there was an option to buy the console without the Kinect, I would more seriously think about jumping over from PlayStation. 
Like i say, I'm in agreement with the reasoning. It just doesn't fit for me. 

I bought a Kinect the day it came out. Despite not using it for gaming very much, the voice commands alone make it worth having.  So, I can't wait to see how much better this next one is.

If they really wanted to do voice control, they could have put that in the system itself which wouldn't have cost as much and skipping out on the camera would make it easier to put it at the $400 price point.

Also, there's one thing that people seem to overlook.  Kinect sits under/above your TV.  It's out of the way and you don't have to handle it apart from positioning it initially.  Compare that to Wii or the Playstation gadgets.  Those are things you can break or lose or throw through your television (Wii anyone?).  The way that Kinect just sits back and does the work is far more appealing to me and always will be.  That is, unless of course, a Starwars game comes with a lightsaber that the Kinect is tuned to pick up on. :)

Also that the Xbox One is more than a game console.
Web searches, multitasking and using it to watch TV will be a big part of using the Kinect.

Yeah? So I have to place this $150 piece of plastic under my TV for what reason, really? I don't want to use anything it offers. Nothing. At all. 

I think they should drop the price down to $349.99. Right now people are looking at the $100 price difference instead of the benefit. If they drop the price by $50 people will see the added benefit of Kinect instead of the added costs. Microsoft needs to win alot of peoples hearts before they attempt to win their wallets with this decision to include the Kinect. OR just offer XBOX live for a year. That's another idea.

The Kinect alone is costing them more than $100 just to make it. $150 price drop before it comes out is not an option. Removing Kinect and having a $400 verison AND a $500 kinect version is an option. Sony themselves said they were barely loosing money on the PS4. Since the XBone is basically the same thing removing the kinect and dropping the price would reduce the loss by quite a bit.

Unbundle kinect and make it $350. It's weaker than PS4, there's no reason it should cost the same if Kinect isn't included. It would sell A CRAP TON at that price. Who cares about kinect?

Good. I don't want Microsoft to backpedal any further on this console. The naysayers are too loud and they're stifling progress. At this rate we'll end up with nothing more than a 360 with a Blu Ray drive.

Are you blind? Your crappy POS xbox 360 has been holding back games from looking halfway decent for a very long time. Thank god this thing actually has some serious processing power and real memory. Thank god for both the PS4 and the XBone for actually being able to move past the antique atari graphics of the ps3 and the xbox 360.

Unfortunately the PS4 and XB1 have lower mid-range hardware. They'll be obsolete in 3 years and hold PCs back for another 3 after that.
Heck I'd already consider them obsolete if they can't do all their games at 1080p60.

Carefull that you don't diss the PS4 which you already declared you were going to buy over the the Xbox One because of the bundle with "stupid" Kinect.

True, as the new games hit the new consoles, there will always be a step up in graphics on the PC. I cant think of one game on the 360 or PS3 that looked better than the PC version...EVER.
 
At least I WILL have a Xbox One, a PS4 and a kick a$$ gaming PC, so I can get it for any system I want...I have the PC and pre-ordered the xbox one but, waiting for a Uncharted game for the PS4 before I buy it...

I'm willing to pay a higher price for the system because I enjoy the benefit of being able to use voice commands to pause and play media. Netflix, Xbox video, Xbox music, etc. I'm not a gamer but love the functionality of Kinect in my living room.

Agreed.  The Kinect v1.0 was a pretty good start all things considered.  If v2.0 is as good as the tech sounds, then its a great opportunity for platform to grow beyond niche.  People will give things a try, the tech gains more exposure and market has a potential for growth while competitors are waving wands and stuff. I am anxious to see what clever uses developers come up with for this component.

Microsoft fanboyism runs rampant on here. What if I don't want our use the Kinect? Should I be forced to buy this unwanted accessory? What the hell ever happened to the customer's always right? Shouldn't they be catering to the customers' wants? Aren't we paying them?q

Good, the cry babies asking for a version without kinect really annoy me.
If you don't want to use Kect, they have already stated multiple times, you can turn it off. 

Probably one of the more disappointing aspects of this specific discussion is how anyone opposed to the Kinect is labeled as "tin hat wearing crazy" or a hater or whatever defensive term folks come up with. Personally, I'm just not interested in the Kinect. Like someone said above, I understand their idea and am not opposed to it fundamentally. I'm just not interested in the peripheral. And as I have said in the forums and other threads, I have the first Kinect. Have used it with Madden, Dance Central, and to control watching Netflix. I just don't care for it.

But the difference is, you're not here screaming and crying about it and hating on MS's decisions because they're including a pioece of hardware ytou don't want. Other people don't seem to understand, if they don't want to use it, they can turn it off and put it aside

I just don't understand the constant bitching about it. MS has said that Kinect will be included with every Xbox One, and many of us are excited about Kinect and it's potential. We know you don't want it, no one is forcing you to buy it so what are your options? Buy it and turn it off, or just don't buy it.

Expect a u turn like every other policy on the XBox ONE-eighty.  Sony are quite happy to let MS win the motion gaming market, they are winning the core gaming market and pre order numbers prove this so far.  MS is selling a wii / tv / xbox hybrid, sony is selling a core gaming machine.  You decide which is right for you based on your usage, simple as that.

Pre orders mean nothing and gamers are fickle. It matters when actual games are available for the platforms and people get to play them. Then as you say, the majority of people will decide which is right for them. Until then this is all just fanboy posturing. Ultimately both consoles will sell well.

Really though, this will either make it a gimic or cause some backdoor exclusivity.  I'm hoping for the former.  I have Skyrim for PS3, and never felt I was missing something as all the Kinect could do different was I could shout my shouts at it.  Big woop.  Now that this is bundled with the One, this will either mean games will add it as an afterthought, or say "well the PS4 version will be worse as we can't use the move stuff as it's not with every system."  I don't enjoy Kinect, nor do I see myself wanting any game that has it.
 
I'm not hating on the Kinect or the One here, just offering a counterpoint.

No question I am happy about this. Systems with the kinect means better games, the more time the devs get to use it, they can see what they really can do with it.  Some Kinect games are really fun and isn't that the point ?

Well two things on this really:

1. I think this hasn't just to do with not being able to buy an Xbox one without buying a Kinect. When the Kinect first sold quite a few PC owners who didn't have an Xbox saw it as a cheap robotics/domotics PC interface. Microsoft at first tried to limit its usage but after they saw how many people were buying it they decided to allow people to use it with their PCs. Now they've brought out a new improved Kinect Sensor but because it is bundled with every console they've a legitimate excuse to NEVER sell it seperately. Not only can you not get the console without the sensor - you can't get the sensor without the console either. Worse, because it's integrated from the start you couldn't even buy a console and sell it on without the sensor - because nothing would work properly.

2. That comment about people complaining about DRM being "Tinfoil hat wearers". Great. So you're happy with Microsoft removing your right to sell on old games? Well you're probably in the minority. Console games sell at such an inflated price that a lot of gamers will pay for new games by part exchanging or selling old ones. Microsofts policy - if had gone unchallenged - would have removed that ability. The tinfoil hat insult suggests paranoia whereas in this case it was legitimate complaints about actual Microsoft practice. Just because you're too much of a fanboy to see it doesn't mean the people who do are paranoid. Without people holding large companies like Micosoft to account they will naturally end up doing what they want.

Does no one else already have a kinect?  I am so mad that I was loyal to Microsoft and bought the stupid thing that I never use and now they mandate that I have to buy another one?  It is just so ridiculous.  Well, Microsoft, I'm sorry that you are gonna get your butt kicked by Sony since there has got to be more people like me.