Microsoft evangelist retracts claims of Windows Phone 8 updates

Lumia 900

And just like that what seemed to be borderline credible evidence that Windows Phone 7 users would get an update to Windows Phone 8 have vanished again.

Nuno Silva, who stated fairly unequivocally during a video interview that all phones will get Apollo has now retracted his claim. In a post on his MSDN blog, Silva clarified his comments:

"I recently participated in an interview with the Portuguese website Zwame, where I made some comments on the future of Windows Phone that created confusion. Rumors are swirling, so I feel the need to clarify my statements.

The point I was attempting to make was simply that existing Windows Phone applications will run on the next version of Windows Phone. This is the same guidance that Microsoft shared late last year.

I mistakenly confused app compatibility with phone updateability, which caused the rumors we saw yesterday.  I did not intend to give the impression I was offering new guidance on any products under development or their upgradeability.

While we have given Windows Phone developers this preliminary guidance on app compatibility to help them with long term project planning, Microsoft does not have any further news to share on future products at this time. "

Interestingly, his response aligns perfectly with Microsoft's PR statement to all tech blogs the other day which took the stance that Silva must be confusing device updates with software compatibility for apps

We're not claiming conspiracy but there must be little doubt that Redmond probably had a phone call or two with Silva and had him prepare a statement to undo the damage (or redo if you believed him).

Does that mean that no current phones will get Windows Phone 8? Not exactly. Until Microsoft gives us the official roadmap and plans, we're not ready to call this the end.

With low-end Tango devices just about to launch, we're really having a difficult time believing that they won't have any OS updates during their run -- that just seems, odd.  We're still leaning towards the two-pronged route (an Apollo-like update for current devices but "true" Windows Phone 8 phones will have technically a new OS) as a possibility. Or just wishful thinking.

And if you believe supposed insider MS_Nerd, the Lumia 610 is already testing with Apollo.

Only time will tell and that time is getting shorter every day. For more speculation, debate and explanations, read yesterday's summary.

Source: MSDN Blog; via WMPU



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I really like WP and really love the metro UI but if my phone doesn't get updated to Apollo..im just going back to iPhone or android.

Jazmac says:

Not I.
I didn't get into this platform because of an impending update to Windows 8. I jumped in when it was simply Windows 7. I hope it gets the update to Windows 8 and I still expect that it will and it should. But if it does not get the update, I'll still remain with the platform, Mango 7.5. I won't do android on a phone and as much as I respect IOS, I like Windows Phone much, much better.

drankurn says:

I definitely like the platform, and I have been supporting it from the beginning, but I definitly am not a 'FANBOY'.  when i got on to the platform I knew what i'll be getting and what are the things that i would need to compromise on, and this UPDATE question was a POSITIVE at that moment, and we were led in to believing that all the devices would get all the updates ( obviously no forever, but..)
although they never said so about wp8 update, but if you ask anyone who has followed the platform from it's early days including yourself, you would realise that it was just a common 'understading' that we will get all the updates.
and than the flip-flop started with the smaller updates and no we stand today where MS just does not want to address the question.
the only real way of getting the answer is for US to ask the question straight to MS, and apply our collective pressure at this time when the issue is in the MEDIA eye.
Now, I have been tweeting to MS, NOKIA , Joe Belfiore to get the answer for couple of days, but yet to get any response, but i think we should all start asking the question, and force them in to taking a stand, I don't think that asking too much...

Whodaboss says:

I agree with you.  I purchased the HTC HD2 when the rumors were discussing that the HD2 would be upgradable to WP7.  It wasn't.  I purchased the HD2 because I wanted that device.  Now I have my HD2 and an HTC Radar.  If the Radar is not upgradable then I'll get the next device in line.  Now, I'm not pretending that I have money stashed in my chair cushions that I can buy the phones on a whim.  I'll buy them once I have the money saved or get an upgrade when my contract runs out.  It's really not the end of the world if one's phone is not upgradable to the next iteration of an OS.  To me anyway.  But like you I'll never go back to Android and I personally just don't care for iPhones.  They may work for others, they're just not for me.

drankurn says:

Good for you, but I think you have got it completely wrong when you compare it to HD2,
the precedent  with windows mobile was completely different, they did not get update from one version to the next, in case of HD2 that was just roumors.
with WP7 it was different. we were led in to believing that all the devices would get all the updates ( obviously no forever, but..)
although they never said so about wp8 update, but if you ask anyone who has followed the platform from it's early days including yourself, you would know that it was just a common 'understading' that we will get all the updates.
and than the flip-flop started with the smaller updates and no we stand today where MS just does not want to address the question.

Whodaboss says:

As you pointed out it seems to me all WP7 devices have or will be upgradable to any version of WP7.X.  I don't recall any statements by MS stating WP7.X would be upgradable to WP8.X though there were some "rumors" or hopeful wishes it would be.  (Though I still hope there's a possibility)
I do realize the HD2 most likely would not have been upgradable to WP7.X, but there were plenty of rumors that said that would have been the case.
Unlike most, I realize "anytime" and I underscore anytime someone purchase a piece of tech device they should consider it a stand alone.  Technology changes so quickly you know when you purchase an item today usually less than 4-6 months something new and better will be out and it most likely make your earlier purchase look outdated.  So you better be happy with the product you have.  And if not, then just be prepared to upgrade.

Ninja1043 says:

While not many have given a damn about Windows Phone, now that "sources" claim that WP8 won't be available, everyone hiding from the woodworks and their grandmother are coming out shooting rockets at us.
This is very simple (for me). Most likely no one knows exactly what the roadmap is except the people who make it.
The Verge article serves 2 purposes: 1) It paints a negative light on Windows Phone. Which it did not work for the most part.
2) Microsoft has been mum on the subject, compared to Mango where everyone and their dog had the beta. This is the reason when reviews came in, they would simply link back to the beta article, and add 100-200 words extra. This is what killed Windows Phone from a standpoint, it didn't cause any buzz at all.

Because Microsoft has been mum at all, this causes The Verge and other sites looking for "Exclusives" tidbits to keep on beating that "dead horse" per se. This in turn "should" make Microsoft go into damage control (By means of leaking info from "sources") but because MS is staying so mum and not working, they are doing everything negative they can to get a response from Microsoft about WP8. These blogs don't give a damn about the damage they cause, only their page hits.

lolken says:

I dont go visit "the verge" often....
but when i do i feel like they are google fanbois.

dannejanne says:

That seems like a childish decision.
Will I be angry at MS for not updating to 8? NO!
Will I change system for not updating to 8? NO!
Did I expect to get 8 when buying my WP phone? NO!
I bought my damn WP phone because I like WP 7.5. I'm not one of those childish people who needs to have the latest version to be happy with their own lifes.
So instead of buying a new WP phone (which you obviously like) with 8 on it you would rather buy a new Android/iPhone? You have to spend money in any case.

Think of that: I bought a not yet satisfying smartphone for my taste to show my support to a very unique platform so that could live on. I bought it on the promise that they rebooted the OS so they wouldn't commit the same errors in the past. Of course I have the expectation that at least some of the gaps in the OS on my phone are solved, and if they don't bring this update I think they are just turning their back on someone who gave them a second chance (I also had a WM).

I'll just go back to iOS if that happen.

dannejanne says:

Yeah I understand. But that's a pretty risky strategy and you know it. So in the end who do you have to blame... MS or yourself?

Raptor007 says:

Exactly, and a valid point.  When you buy a phone these days you really cannot expect updates beyond bug fixes, for many reasons but on in specific.  Hardware is accelerating faster than the designs can keep up.  WP7.5 was designed with specific specs and now MS has a plan to align desktop/laptop + ARM (tablet) + Phone into a more unified platform.  This may in fact cause new hardware and in effect not allow for backwards compatibility with older hardware.
Maybe its up to the OEM's to decide if they can/want to support the move or maybe specific hardware revisions will or won't make the update.
MS did deliver a Mango update which is better than many Android phones which didn't go from 2.1 to 2.2 or never saw 2.2 to 2.3 and will never see 4.0.
We need to be looking at the hardware we are buying today, decide if we can live with it for 2 years or not, and if we can't pay retail (its cheaper than an iPhone) and wait for the next big hardware jump.
I know I am getting rid of my current phone, and picking up the Trophy again and will ride this out until fall.  If Verizon fails to impress then I have choices to make which includes staying on Verizon and choosing another platform, jumping to AT&T and getting a phone that is rehashed Android phone with WP8 on it or again riding it out.

AzD says:

So do I have this right - your contention is that MS was caught off guard by new hardware?  So they built an unadaptable mobile OS without realizing that hardware would continue to eveolve and improve?  If that's the case they are in deeper trouble than I thought.

mparker says:

WP7 was purely a stopgap measure.  The Windows-on-ARM kernel wasn't remotely close to ready when they needed it, so they went with what they had, which was the WinCE kernel.  They knew that kernel had pretty much reached the end of its life, but they didn't really have a choice in the matter, other than completely withdraw from handhelds for the next two years.

onysi says:

youre welcome to leave if your statement "really like" means anything.  the less users, the better I look unique with my wp nokia phone.

theman60099 says:

Oh shut your mouth

incendy says:

Trust me, they all have the same problem... Have an android device that is three versions behind and an Iphone that is missing Siri and runs slow after being updated.
Technology advances so quickly, every device made this second is already outdated. It is the nature of it.
It is also very exciting, IMO

stui83 says:

Mango is is the sweetest fruit out there. Perfectly satisfying. No ones taking away your sweet ride. If you don't get the upgrade it doesn't mean we can't enjoy our classic 7.5, it will still make IOS and android look cheap :)

stevethenerd says:

Seems silly MS and Nokia would release the 900 so late with out plans...

Or worse, knowing that besides 'Tango' (which is barely an update) that for the life of the device, no more updates for the 900. That'd be unprecedented for such a flagship phone.

Then again, look at the HD2. Released in late spring 2010 (US), never got WP7 and was supplanted by the HD7 just 7 months later. (Though I'd still argue the 900 is a much bigger release).

inteller says:

the HD2 failed more of the fact it didn't meet chassis requirements.  If Microsoft wanted to be dicks and announce new chassis requirements that all current phones don't meet they could do that, but they might as well close up shop if they announce another stat from scratch OS.
Microsoft NEEDS to have an Apollo 1 2 3 scenario and clearly outline that this will be the last update for Apollo 2 phones and/or Tango 1 phones.  Just be transparent!  That's all anyone is asking.  Taking your hard earned money through subterfuge is never a winning strategy long term.

Eirenarch says:

The only question is what is the motivation behind this? With the HD2/7 they had a complete reboot of the OS but why reboot the OS every two years? WP8 should not be THAT different (ARM and all that) technically and even if it was the question remains why not develop something compatible with current devices. It seems like a P.R. suicide. If I were in MS's shoes I would sacrifice possible technical advantages just to release one more major update to current devices. I just don't see how not updating current devices makes any sense for anything especially with high profile launch like Lumia 900 (why not hold off the marketing push until WP8 device is available).

Would they make the same mistake again?

mparker says:

Depends on whether they think the first time was a mistake...

ousooner314 says:

Let's all just calm down and wait for an official statement. Heck, there's no formal annoucement regarding when Windows Phone 8 is coming out, and we're already getting ready to receive the update. Just relax and enjoy what Windows Phone currently offers, and keep contributing with comments/suggestions and app developemnt to make it better.

While I agree with that in principal, with the Lumia 900 coming out and people committing to 2-year contracts, I can very much see why a lot of folks have questions.

AzD says:

Exactly, Daniel - it's not like the Lumia is NOT being hyped and hyped by MS, AT&T and Nokia.  WPCentral just had a story about how ~60% of Lumia buyers are coming from Android or iOS - is this how MS wants to introduce them to the platform - by basically obsoleting their phone in 6 months time?  Terrible PR move.
And can people stop with the "calm down, all is well, enjoy your phone, we'll get what we get" comments already?  What, is passion and interest about the future of WP a bad thing all of a sudden?  God forbid people should have an interest and affinity for this platform...

ousooner314 says:

It's not afinity when people suggest leaving the platform if they do not get future updates..

AzD says:

No, what you're describing is blind loyaly or fanboyism.  To drop support for a phone they hyped so heavily just 6 months earlier - sounds like an abusive relationship to me.  Liking/loving WP is one thing but there has to be some reciprocal affection from the other party.

ousooner314 says:

One would argue that loyalty is what's making (and keeping) Apple and Android extremely successful. I'm not saying don't get upset about this. Heck, I'll be upset if they say old phones won't get this update. But I'm just saying let's wait for the official statement rather than reacting to someone who heard it from an anonymous source. Negative reactions to unfounded claims hurt the momentum of this platform. We have enough naysayers and critics as it is, let's not contribute to it ourselves until there's a clear reason to do so.

AzD says:

I am waiting for an official statement - but that's part of MS's problem - they won't come out and confirm or deny these rumors, which, quite frankly is telling, if you ask me.  I am in the camp of believing they WILL update these phones if only because I think it will be an unmitigated disaster for them if the don't.  However I am not bouyed in my belief with this latest retraction by Nuno Silva.  Someone made him retract his statement for a very specific reason. Not looking good for current WP users.

Ninja1043 says:

From a business stand point, Nokia has much more to lose than Microsoft with the Lumia 900. At the end of the day it says Nokia and ATT NOT Microsoft/Windows Phone. If anyone here thinks that Nokia is about to just abandon the 900, then idk what you have been smoking but I would love to try some! Basically what I'm trying to say, there is alot at stake from ATT, Nokia and Microsoft to at least inculed the Lumia 900 and Titan 2 handsets. These two phones have been far more successful than previous tries.

Conasca says:

Samsung and HTC do this all year long, every year, with their TouchWiz and Sense devices.

ousooner314 says:

I feel it's a double-edged sword. When new Apple and Android devices get released, you don't see news articles questioning whether future updates will work with the device (and potentially impacting its sales). Granted, Apple has a good update record so that's almost a given, but no one really takes it into consideration while purcahsing an iPhone. With Android, and its terrible record of update deployment, it's still the #1 selling platform. I can understand people concerned about buying an immediately outdated phone, but when people start talking about leaving the platform altogether, that seems a bit much. Just my rant and opinion!

But if Apple released an iPhone that could not get the next version of iOS six months later...I mean, that'd get some pretty bad press too.

Android's problem is mostly about execution of updates, not so much as Google cutting off models <6 months old.

To reiterate, it just seems like such an odd move for AT&T, Nokia and Microsoft to hype a device who's OS is being abandoned within 6-8 months.

ousooner314 says:

I agree, it would definitely be a momentum killer if they were to cut short the life of a 6 month old phone. I just would rather wait for the official statement rather than rely on these so-called-experts. For instance, I was upset (read: furious) when the official Microsoft blog talked about eliminating the update page and retracted their guarantee of alternate updates. I just don't want to get worked up about it (and partly wishful thinking, maybe) when someone claims to have heard it an anonymous source.

AzD says:

Apple, and to a lesser extent, Android, have something going for them that MS needs - a track record.  Apple and Android also have a huge installed user base, a giant app and accessory market, and a highly active developer community that MS lacks.  If you think for a minute that MS gets a pass because of Apple's reputation, you are sorely mistaken.  MS abandoned WM, and if they are preparing to abandon WP7 as well just 2 years later...  well that's a whole different kind of track record.

A r i says:

Daniel nailed it right there. Guys who say to relax just don't get this point. To go further, it can be argued that WP7.5 phones has inferior CPU and rez specs but charged contemporary prices seem illogical for early adopters to the platform. Sure the current OS didn't need it to run smoothly but come fall you'll certainly be wanting it for the full Apollo. Thus the NL900 is priced appropriately at 0-100.

ousooner314 says:

We'll join you with pitchforks when it's officially announced that WP8 doesn't support old WP7.5 phones! :)

lippidp says:

It's pretty simple. If you're concerned about whether or not the Lumia 900 will be upgradeable to WP8 you should not buy it until an announcement has been made. If you like the phone as it is you should go get it. I don't understand what all the fuss is about. If you can't control yourself and just *have* to have the Lumia 900 right now then you will get what they give you and that's all you deserve.

I hung on to my WM 6.5 Tilt 2 until late September 2011 when it was announced that the Quantum would get the Mango update and all Mango features had been publicly released. The Quantum was a year old at the time. I made a calculated decision, got the Quantum for a penny, and am now happy. Anyone is capable of using logic and reason; not just me.

Jazmac says:

I'm waiting for an official confirmation from Microsoft on this. Admittedly I'll be disappointed if this is as far as my Lumia 900 will take me, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there. We simply don't know for a fact what the story is. But on the Lumia 900, I simply cannot believe MS would put their reputation on the line to do such a thing. Nor would I believe this to be the case with Nokia.

drankurn says:

i think we 'consumers' need to keep pushing MS to get a definite yes/no answer on this, coz I am sure a lot of people including myself would evaluate their decision to stay with wp depending on the answer.

NIST says:

Silva's"clarification" was well crafted. Microsoft made a call to him for sure.

inteller says:

If you are a Microsoft Evangelist and your excuse is you are "confused"...you might need to think about a different job.

A r i says:

LMAO. Nuno got smoked by MSFT.

HD7guy says:

I wouldn't doubt he was called to the carpet seconds after his comments went public. Heck, he's probably lucky to still have a job.

inteller says:

I predict he won't in a few months...he'll make a silent exit.

tekhna says:

It wouldn't totally suprise me if Microsoft decides, given WP7 sales, that Apollo will be a clean reboot of their mobile products and brand. It makes sense--launch your new ecosystem simultaneously with a rollout for phone, tablets and desktop. Microsoft had a real legacy problem with Windows, perhaps they're viewing this as a chance to rebuild and get out in front of that problem (which would seem a bit like putting the cart before the horse, but whatever)

inteller says:

They are done in the mobile space if they do that.  Every ODM would leave them including Nokia.

tekhna says:

Yep. But we're not exactly seeing signs of life anyway outside the Lumia 900. Maybe they think at this point the only way to make waves is a total reboot. It doesn't make sense on some level, but what they're doing now clearly isn't working. 

NIST says:

It seems the fixes are so basic and cosmetic. 1. Let me pick the color of the tile. Any color. Not just the dozen or two provided. 2. Allow some sort of wallpaper behind the times on the home screen. Heck, make the home screen look like the picture hub.

If they have another clean, total break, only two years after Windows Mobile, I agree with everybody else: Microsoft would be finished in mobile for at least another decade.
The issue here doesn't seem to be so much whether Apollo will come to current Lumia devices; I'm sure that if an 'Apollo-like' update, that is really only WP 7.8 or 9, is pushed out, users would be happy enough.
The elephant in the room seems to be applications going forward.   Sure, current apps may run, according to Microsoft, on WP8.
But will future WP8 apps run on current devices?  If not, then WP7 is a platform that is effectively dead-ended.   What incentive would developers creating apps for WP8 have for also creating another whole version, along with support, that will run on Mango devices?

cannon#WP says:

Sounds like MS had Vinny and Vito pay a little visit to Nuno's office. His statement sounds waaaaay to close to the official spiel we got from MS, especially the "confused app compatibility" part. Somehow, I really can't believe an adult who works within a company can confused 2 vastly different things such as app compatibility and phone upgrade paths.

Schnydz says:

Agreed. I smell a rat. The big wigs gave him a call to retract. At least thats what it seems. Apollo or not, I'm still loving my UX on my Lumia900.

sHAYM4N says:

Upgrade die end of May, seeing if I can get a 12month deal on a lumia with less subsidy then I hopefully can upgrade again in 9 months to a TRUE Apollo handset. Shall see, though still awaiting for orange to announce a 900, if they leave it much longer they can count me out.

Schnydz says:

Anything thing else posted on MS_Nerd and his 'tip' that the 610 is currently running Apollo? As in where did he get this info?

He told me Microsoft PR, but off-the-record/anonymous. Take it with a grain of salt.

mmoses1978 says:

Weather the current phone gets windows 8 or not, I am not turning my back on WP7. Most Android devices never get there updates but we all got WP mango. I think it's ok if we have to buy new phones at this point except if you just got the Lumia 900 and the HTC titan 2.

bevt says:

I've decided that I basically got the Lumia 900 free with the Nokia data kickback that is expected.  We'll see what Microsoft and Apple do this fall.  If Microsoft can't correct what I see as glaring omissions in 7.5 with an update of some sort I'll take the money I saved not paying for a phone now to pay the early termination fee at AT&T.  I'll go back to Verizon for the iphone5 which should be out by then.

iAdrian23 says:

This whole situation is just killing me. In two months my parents promised me they will buy me a new phone. Now I don't know what to tell them. The 900 wasn't even released in my country yet  and with these news I think I'm going to pass.
I really want a Lumia 900 Cyan but I'm not going to waste their & mine money (since I cannot get my own...) for a FLAG SHIP phone that won't be updated. I'm really confused, more than the evangelist is/was.

ZX9 says:

I would be nearly certain that any phones like the 900 released after Mango will absolutely get Apollo. What I could see happening is that Gen 1 phones don't get the update, which is completely possible. Nokia's closeness to Microsoft made the 900 4G, and I can almost guarantee it'll get the 900 Apollo, if ever there was any doubt.

idrewpage says:

Well, I am betting that Microsoft would not totally screw Nokia, so I am sure current phones (especially the Lumia line) will get some sort of WP8 update.  If not, I really don't think I can support a platform or company that cares so little for its users.  I'll probably go to Android, even though I am indifferent towards it.  I used to be an iPhone diehard, but once you have live tiles or widgets, you can't go back to the static icon field that is iOS.

drankurn says:

well, I am very dissappointed in that MS is just not answering the real question, and we/media have to keep revisiting the issue every couple of months.
It would be just totallu unacceptable to not get upgrade for lumia/titan II.
But, I have a solution, I guess they can provide appollo devices to lumia/titan II owners at the same subsidized prize as everyone else with contract extension or let them simply exchage the devices, I think that would solve the problem if they are not able to push the update to these devices.

stui83 says:

Free market research for now... They will answer, eventually. Maybe when the white lumia900 comes out, then they can quantify what effect such promises have on sales. Why waste the chance for a good experiment.

Residing says:

So, if Gen 1 and Gen 2 devices don't get Apollo, or some iteration of Apollo, that doesn't necessarily mean that these devices are obsolete - these devices will still function.  If Microsoft continues to support these devices - i.e. bug fixes, then these devices will still be operable.
I realize that many want the latest and greatest features of Apollo (whatever they may be), but for some to abandon their devices and/or move to other platforms because of the possibility that current devices will not getting Apollo just seems rash.  I thought the point of purchasing a device was to purchase the device based on what it does for you at the time of your purchase; I'd wager that most consumers (not techies) base their purchases on that standard.
Again, I think as long as the technical support for bug fixes/issues for current devices are maintained, many people will still be satisfied with their current WP purchase.

procen says:

Update or not I still love my phone, and I'm not going back to Android or iPhone. I will just purchase Windows Phone Apollo at the end of the year. I saw a video in youtube with the new HTC one x the guy opened an application it was taking a little longer to load for the hardware specs it has compare to a 1Ghz windows phone.

AzD says:

Well, moneybags, not everyone has the luxury of just buying new phones on a whim.  ;)
Seriously though, the issue isn't "buy a new WP8 phone or not"; take the longview here - MS will be basically starting over, gain, from scratch - 0 user base for it's new phone.  With a pissed off contingent of it's prior user base.  With stiff competition including most likely, a new iPhone and new Android devices for sure, not to mention cannibalism from its own Win 8 tablets that will be hitting the shelves.  Developers - probably getting a little skittish as well, which may affect app growth and development in the long term.  Considering WP is playing catch up already, they are courting a full fledged disaster by obsoleting their installed user base on the hope of Win 8/WP8 success. So you are going to buy a new WP8 phone, good for you, but are you going to ride it all the way to the bottom as well if it starts cratering? 
Point is, MS isn't operating in a vacuum here.  They have a small window to do this right.  If they think abandoning their fledgling WP7 user base is the right business move, then more power to them - its their company after all, not mine.  But as a consumer, that makes me more than a tad nervous.  I hope they succeed, I really like WP, but I am also pragmatic about the situation.   I plan on buying a WP Apollo phone, but if they just abandon the WP7 users, mmm, I don't know.  That gives me pause. I can only take so much...
I'd hate to think a 5.3" iPhone with retina display, NFC and quad-core processor drops at the same time as the new Apollo phones...  

procen says:

I understand everyone's point, but we don't even know what's going to happen. FYI I don't have a moneybag I only have an upgrade and I will use it for the next windows phone. MS should have started their phone with Apollo specs in the first place to prevent what is happening now.

AzD says:

"that doesn't necessarily mean that these devices are obsolete - these devices will still function. "
No kidding, but it does mean app development for them will grind to a halt.
Nobody is claiming they won't work anymore, we are all aware that they will continue to function.  That's not the concern here.
"but for some to abandon their devices and/or move to other platforms because of the possibility that current devices will not getting Apollo just seems rash."
Rash, or rational, depending on your perspective.  It may just come down to whether you think the abandonment of the installed user base of WPs is a good thing or a bad thing, long term, considering the challenges MS faces in the mobile market.
"I think as long as the technical support for bug fixes/issues for current devices are maintained"
Good luck on that one - see WM 6.  Not to mention, the carriers who control the updates/patches are not inclined to waste time and money on dead/dying OSes.

drankurn says:

It would be totally unacceptable/dissappointing if lumia or titan II won't get updated.
the only solution i see is if they allowe people to buy apollo devices for the same subsidized price for a contract extension or simply allow people to exchange them for apollo devices.

iAdrian23 says:

I was just thinking about something and then I realised that they cannot release WP8 only with dual-core/quad-cores and 1GB RAM+ phones. Why? Where the hell are the low-end ones if that's going to be the requirment, which would worth for sure $500+ and not everyone can afford that (otherwise they wouldn't release Tango).

bevt says:

For me it comes down to the ridiculous omission of BACKUP.  iphone backs up the entire phone, everything.  My friends who have had phones lost or broken can get another devise, enter their passords and TADAH - new phone is exactly like the old one, completely restored, nothing lost.   Microsoft really dropped the ball on backup functionality... that is just so BASIC.  I didn't discover this until I bought it or I wouldn't have bought Windows Phone at all. 
So to answer Residing -  it's not that I want the "latest and greatest" features.  I want a phone that has the basic functionality to BACKUP completely.   Microsoft needs to deal with those outrageous omissions to 7.5 at the very least - and quick.

D16RR says:

BFD.  Call me in a few years when WP has matured into a business tool.  

dannejanne says:

Stop reporting about WP8 until we actually know something about it.

AzD says:

Good idea!   Ummm, not.
It is only by the community registering its concerns openly that MS will take notice.  If they think nobody cares  what happens to the OS in the future, they will just do whatever they want.

jabtano says:

I like wp7 I would like to get the update nut owing one first Gen device and one lumia I don't expect the hd7 to get it but I do with the lumia

dkp23 says:

I just dont see apollo coming to current devices at all...
I would suspect that an upgrade would make the phone sluggish...
I hope they come out with another huge wp7 update like mango, but my opinion this whole time, current devices not getting update..We'll see how it playsout. 

ayejay0601 says:

You can't blame MSFT for wanted to be quiet until its ready.  Think Siri.  MSFT developed some really excellent voice technology with the original release of Mango.  It got very little media coverage .  But then Apple releases Siri 6 months later and everybody is talking about it. Because apple learned of MSFT's intention for voice integration early, they had plenty of time to develop and one-up MSFT.  Incidentally, most people that I know who have 4s, can't stand Siri (Anecdotally)

tekhna says:

Um, relevance to WP8?

ayejay0601 says:

Relevance is that MSFT wont be providing info about WP8 until they must.  

laserfloyd says:

Info on what phones will/will not get updated and how they will go about it.  That's all we need to know.

jdep1 says:

I don't think Apollo will be pushed to old devices but will be possible to run by a costume ROM.

theman60099 says:

Why are people so upset about this? It's very stupid to think or assume that the Titans and lumias won't get updated. The Gen 1 phones might not get the update and if they didn't I'd just buy a new phone like most gen 1 users will.

"Ooops, I just got my ass slapped.  Please disregard previous statments regarding the Apollo release."

laserfloyd says:

At first I was in the "stop complaining" camp but the more I thought about it and read about it, I changed over.  It's important NOW because it can affect the decision to buy a device NOW and in the coming months.  I was going to consider the 900 in a couple of months but now, I don't know.  I can't imagine buying a device in July and 4-6 months later it doesn't get a major upgrade.
It makes me hope that MS has taken this into consideration.  Surely with all the blogs raging on about it, they'll get the picture.  Even if my device now doesn't get full on 100% Apollo, it needs something to take it as far as it will go.  I could see 1st and 2nd gen devices getting an upgrade to that nature and the 3rd gen devices will be pure WP8.  Perhaps that is wishful thinking also.
MS would be wise to at least give us enough info to deduce what will (or is planned to) happen.

There is NO TECHINICAL reason why EVERY phone wont at least get a SUBSET of WP8... WP8 will bring new features that won't be possible on Gen 1 and Gen 2 but surely MOST features should work just fine..
So if they CAN update us but choose NOT TO, then that is bad blood and bad faith for consumers.

camaroguy says:

I get that these are mobile devices, so on some level there is a slightly different expectation but Microsoft is a "software" company.  Apple is a "hardware" company.  When you buy a dell computer with Windows 7 on it, you get updates and service packs, but you don't get Windows 8 for free.  It seemed similar to WinMo 6, some devices were upgraded to 6.5 based on OEM discretion, but non were updated to 7 which is a major update.  Just like all the WP7 devices got 7.5 which is a minor update, there is no real reason Microsoft would just give you WP8.  Android is not a propper comparison as Google does not sell it in the first place, but even so, we all know what the update situation is over there.  I should clerify, I don't actually know if they will or won't give you the update any more than the rest of you, I just don't think its fair for you guys to be carrying pitchforks because Microsoft "might" be following the same model they pretty much always have in regards to software.  They don't give it away like Google does.  Also, with as quiet as things have been...I don't think Apollo will be out any time this year.  I don't even know that MS has confirmed Windows 8 will release this year, its just been speculation based on the beta.  I may have missed an official announcement on that one though.

AzD says:

"Just like all the WP7 devices got 7.5 which is a minor update, there is no real reason Microsoft would just give you WP8. "
You're missing the point, apparently.  But yeah, I guess if MS wants to pave its own path vis-a-vis OS upgrades in a vital market where it is currently getting creamed, its their company, they can do whatever they want.  They want to treat contract smartphones like PCs then they can do so; at their own peril, I think, but what do I know.  I'm just a dumb consumer.

WinFan1 says:

i surely do hope microsoft knows what it is doing if im not upgradeable speaking only for myself the lumia will be the last wp i own till the end of my contract.

...and my plans for a ATT store visit Sunday are cancelled and the money is back in my pocket

I migrated to Windows Phone from Android primarily for a consistent user experience across devices and some reasonable guarantee of OS updates. I've purchased far too many dead-end Android devices and disagree with the notion that we should rely upon the community and (buggy) 3rd party ROMs for support.

I suppose I was also equally tired of the apologetic notion that we don't need OS updates. As if any of us here would elect not to receive one if it were offered. After all, we spend the better part of our free time reading articles and commenting on the latest OS, it's only natural that we might actually want to use it.

All that said, if my HTC Titan doesn't get an update to Apollo, I'm done with the platform. I'm certain that doesn't mean much to anyone here (especially the loyalists) but if I'm going to be buying disposable smartphones, I'd just as soon go back to Android. There's a better selection of hardware, a better ecosystem and at least the potential for unofficial updates.

All of these comments from people saying they are done with the platform if their current devices aren't upgradeable to WP8 are ridiculous and thoughtless. Seriously, just because Microsoft isn't upgrading my current Windows 7 PC to Windows 8 for free doesn't make me want to jump ship to Apple. Here's a thought, if you truly like the ecosystem and your old hardware can't be updated, either wait until you're eligible for an upgrade or sell your current device and buy new....enough with the little kid tantrums and rants. You clearly like your current Windows phone device or else you wouldn't be here...its not the end of the world if you have to stay with WP7 for a few extra months before you're able to get a new device

All of these comments from people saying they are done with the platform if their current devices aren't upgradeable to WP8 are ridiculous and thoughtless.

Conversely, I think it's ridiculous to support a platform that willfully abandons its users. ;-)

Seriously, just because Microsoft isn't upgrading my current Windows 7 PC to Windows 8 for free doesn't make me want to jump ship to Apple.

I think we'd gladly pay for an update to Apollo if they'd let us. However the argument here isn't regarding price, it's regarding capability. Microsoft (supposedly) isn't allowing us to upgrade at all. That's like saying only PCs sold with Windows 8 will be compatible with Windows 8.

Certainly there would be those who defended the practice (If you want Windows 8 buy a new computer!) but I couldn't possibly criticize someone for taking issue with it. This is especially true if their hardware is only a few months old.

tekhna says:

Mochi, the difference is that YOU have the choice of upgrading your PC or not. And you pay for that. But the choice of whether your software is upgraded on your phone is up to Microsoft, the manufactorer and your carrier. It's totally out of your control. So the unwillingness of Microsoft to provide an update isn't as simple as going out and buying the update, you literally can't get it. And like it or not, the precedent has been set that phones get updates for two years. That's industry standard.

theman60099 says:

I agree, stupid muthafuckers

keithvsmith says:

I just don't get all these people demanding an update. Yeah, I'd be disappointed if I don't get WP8 aka Apollo, but this doesn't change how laggy/bugged Android or even iPhone can be. Nevermind the update issues on Android. When you buy a PC, do you get upgrades to the next major OS a year later? No. Everyone is expecting something for free. A lot of money & effort went into the developement of this new OS. So, yes they deserve to make money off their hard work. Not to mention that this new OS is completely different from WP7 & may just not be 100% compatable (CE Core/NT Core). The major problem with smartphones is there's no option to buy an upgrade as with PC's. If your hardware is supported, you get a reduced cost "upgrade license." I have already gotten numerous updates & knew from the beginning that at some point my HD7 would reach end of life, support.

Oh, geez, not this stupid argument again.
Like I somebody already pointed out:  Microsoft is free to do whatever they want, but if they think that the smartphones-on-two-year-contract lock ins market is analogous to the PC market, then they're smoking some good stuff up in Redmond, WA.
If that's their attitude, they deserve to get shut out of mobile.

eights_tw says:

Someone tells us an information that all the device with Windows Phone 7 will be upgraded to Apollo. But no guarantee all new functions will run well on these old devices. There is already a new device with windows phone 8, maybe it will be shown on Nokia World 2012. This is a good news for you. Source from : http://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=129&t=2698244&p=2#35327680

uopjo6 says:

Hm. Since it's still a developing platform then ok. But I at least expect the updates will be universal starting from Apollo. Or else it's just screwing users.

supercain says:

I have a windows phone and they are so far behind the competition, they will never catch up. Rumored soon to come. Android Samsung galaxy epic 3. 4.7 in screen. 4g . Quad core. Talk about speed. This will be it.