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Microsoft: ‘no surprises’ regarding Nokia X, knew about Android work, okay with it

If there was any question today about what Microsoft thinks about the Nokia X and its Android phone, their public line is that they’re fine with it. During Nokia Developer Day, John Shewchuk, a Microsoft technical fellow responsible for “strategy for cloud platform services”, took to the stage to demonstrate Microsoft services running on the Nokia X, noting that they’re a ‘devices and services company’ first and don’t consider Nokia’s choice to be against their interests.

Before the session even officially kicked off, Shewchuk chose to address the elephant in the room by talking about Nokia X and Microsoft. Their stance, at least overtly, was that they knew about Nokia’s Android work going into the deal (to acquire Nokia’s hardware division) and that there were “no surprises” here this week. Instead, Microsoft’s focus on services, specifically OneDrive, Outlook.com and Skype, were considered to be just as important business for Microsoft as Windows Phone.

The session then focused on the benefits of developing services on Nokia X and Lumia phones, with Microsoft’s services being front and center. Nokia then later returned to the stage to discuss their imaging SDKs and development work.

We spoke with Shewchuk briefly after the session regarding his statement. He was forthright in stating that Windows Phone, as a developer platform, is still superior for many companies out there whom are making apps. The idea here is yes, Android is popular, but Windows Phone has momentum now and things like the web developer tools offer a great alternative.

Microsoft clearly has two business here to consider. More, actually. It’s not about just Windows Phone, but about Skype, OneDrive, Bing and even Azure. While to Windows Phone users, prioritizing that OS seems very obvious, Microsoft is taking a different approach. At least in this regard, publicly, they are on board with Nokia X and do it see it as an opportunity to grow Microsoft’s services in emerging markets.

Will Nokia X remain after the sale? We’re leaning towards yes, that this is a long term strategy by Microsoft. We’ll just have to wait and see. But for now, Nokia and Microsoft are acting like everything is business as usual.

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Reader comments

Microsoft: ‘no surprises’ regarding Nokia X, knew about Android work, okay with it

292 Comments

It didn't occur to anyone in Microsoft boardroom that they should instead make cheaper versions of 520 now that they have a hardware division and have no licensing fees to pay to themselves and make a phone line cheaper than Nokia X that displaces Nokia X before it even takes off in emerging markets?

It's not about the price. People is choosing Android because the Apps and the brand. Even if the Lumia is cheaper and run better in low end hardware, people chose Android anyway.

If Microsoft could take a 5% of market share with WP and another 5% with the Nokia X, then maybe they could survive in the consumer market. Tell me, how can they pay for the development of Cortana and all of the services without users.

The UI of the Nokia X is really simple, probably its target is first time smartphone users migrating from dumb or feature phones, old people accessing the internet for the first time.

No, but get them hooked on that simplicity on this Android if possible. Remember, most people buy into the ecosystem their friends have, which is usually Android. Once WP 8.1 comes out, I am almost certain it will be installable on this phone. Perhaps that will be the draw of this phone, that it will be the first with the ability to use either OS. The hardware certainly supports WP 8.1.

Repeat after me:

It's for emerging markets.

It's for emerging markets.

It's for emerging markets.

It's for emerging markets.

So why can't Microsoft target emerging markets with WP? Their services running on the best hardware available can't attract users l, how will the Nokia x change that?

That's the plan MS currently trying to implement with WP 8.1 by removing WP's some costly hardware requirements such as dedicated camera button and softkeys (home,back and search keys),etc. I am pretty sure the market will be flooded by 100-150 USD low to mid tier WP 8.1 phones. Also, to get stonger in US market, introduce 150 USD unlocked WP 8.1 phones, OEMs should simply increase RAM size to 1GB and add LTE chipsets and give 50 USD Windows phone store credit to get favorite apps while switching, it's complete for WP 8.1 and be winner! 

What ? check my comment again ! ^^ (PS: it was sarcasm)
but anyway i don't get it why they made Nokia X, it's just dumb idea
if i want to buy Android i'll get either HTC or Nexus 
if i want WP i'll buy Nokia
why would i buy Android skinned like WP and full of Microsoft apps ?

there is a lot of other Phones from HTC, it's not only HTC One
and Nokia X isn't that perfect phone with perfect OS
it's just another Low-end Android phone with costume UI (launcher)
 

They all still cost too much for many citizens in developing countries. look at this page for example: http://www.digiceljamaica.com/en/phones/view_phone.php?id=7733

this price is about half that of a decent job's monthly salary in this country. Many people's salary barely covers the light and water bill in this screwed up country. browse the site if you like and realize how wonderful nokia's new offering looks in countries such as this. The sad thing is that most people work their arses off in this country. Consider yourself blessed to even be able to say what you said here.

huh? have you ever heard the name "Samesung" ?
and 520 isn't that high priced, or is it ?
"screwed up country" ? hmm what about Syria ?

 

I wasn't implying that only Jamaica has problems but so do many others. I only used it as reference since it was my former country. Did you see the 520 on that site? And why are you mentioning Samsung? Oh, I think I get what you are trying to say now but you have missed my point. What I was saying was that no matter which HTC phone you are talking about or any Samsung phone for that matter, it is still too expensive for most people in these countries. The Nokia x, however, is a much cheaper phone than any CURRENT gen phones made by any OEM and since there is no 520 in this country I think the x would do well. Most of the citizens here prefer Android and BlackBerry (lol) than anything else. All they would have to do is feed them with the Nokia x and get them accustomed to the tiles and such that the metro UI has to offer and create new fans of that interface.

i think i get it now, but you should know prices won't be 100% accurate
L520 in USA is 60$ ? well ,here in Austria it's 150(euro) which is about 210$

So put the merging ramp on the WP OS highway, not someone else highway. Yeah this may get more people use outlook and Bing, but there has to people a better way.

Not necessarily, here in developing countries people choose android because it is what is popular, and it becomes popular thanks to advertising, Samsung advetises massively in almost all markets, that's how they became #1 in the Mobile World, at least outside the US.

Another problem for WP is carrier exclusivity. I didn't even know there was a Windows Phone Os last year, because they were no models anywhere to be found, no advertising, no nothing, just recently the 520 and 920 were being sold by our carriers and now I see more WPs in the streets, I've seen perhaps 10 so far, so they need to step up their game, produce non exclusive phones and target not only they US, also advertise as hell,being successful in any market is about having a good product (which WP is) AND having a reputation, which WP doesn't have yet.
 

You are right. Pple want Android due to Apps.. nothing else. I am sure that Nokia X will soon beat lumia sales due to this very reason. I am going to buy one too. the 5 inch one. Just to swap between my lumia. and if i need android apps.

Check out the benchmarking of the Nokia X phones on GSMArena.com. The X phones are terribly slow. I know they're comparing the phones to flagships (Z2, S5, etc.), but the X speeds are way, way, way below the others. I ditched Android years ago because my pathetic HTC Eris was infuriatingly slow. I can't imagine the X phones will be better, unless users never install apps on them.

Greetings from China.  In Mandarin they don't have a word for "bullsh*t" but if they did it would apply.  Outside the miniscule North American and EU markets people buy Android simply because it's cheap.  But as cheap as it is, handset manufacturers have to pay patent fees to Microsoft and Nokia.  So out here in the real world, nobody is making any money on low-end handsets.  This deal changes everything.  Microsoft/Nokia don't have to pay patent fees.  Samsung/HTC/Huawei/ZTE et al do have to pay patent fees.  Microsoft/Nokia can undercut them.

It's simple really.  But please don't be fooled that people in other countries buy Android because of its quality or the number of apps.  Here in China - the world's biggest Android market - they don't even have the App Store.

I'm sure they thought of it. As backwards as this sounds, maybe they determined that Android can be made to run better on low end hardware? There has to be a good reason they chose Android rather than WP.

Just because it's cheap and what people are asking for. These are all trojan phones, get them used to WP style, apps and services and when they upgrade they'll get a WP phone. By then it'll be "cool", have all the apps and be as cheap as any Android.

I agree. The Asha-Android OS seems unnecessary since Windows Phone will be just as cheap and can work just as fine on low-end phones. Why have 2 OSes when one can do the job?

True but look at the market the Nokia X is aimed at, it's the same markets as the Asha range. Windows Phone devices including the 520 are too expensive in those markets, so by having a phone using AOSP Android with Microsoft and Nokia services on board as a trojan horse to get people using Microsoft services on a cheaper platform before they move up to a Lumia is a good move IMHO.

This would be true if the X devices price was half of that of the 520, but it turns out to be around the same. So if the strategy is that it has weak foundations.

And all those resources used to create Ashas and X phones could be used making WP better. I would love to let the Nokia coders who polished Symbian have a chance to improve WP.  Symbian had its problems, no doubt, but it was a s fast as WP, offered full multitasking, and just plain did things they way you'd expect.  I'd love to see the beauty of WP combined with the power of Symbian.

I fear that the Nokia talent will be diluted among the three projects: Asha, X, and WP.

I don't think the cost of the L520 is the issue even in emerging markets, I think its the same as here in the united states, apps. I won't be running out to grab an X series phone from Nokia as I think their strategy is desparate at best from Nokia standpoint as it is just all over the place like they were prior to adopting WP. Example: Meego, Maemo, Asha, Jolla, Sailfin, and now skinned Android. I can however, see a glimpse of Microsoft's strategy. Look at it this way; it might be easier for them to get developers to develop apps for WP if the developers are already getting funds from devices Microsoft already owns, so why not expand it to WP?

If developers get funds for apps for Android forked OS, they will make apps for real android, not WP. They know even Microsoft doesn't believe in WP OS to attract users or developers, why waste time?

The 520 is already dirt cheap.  I think the X devices make sense.  Get them in with the promise of Android that looks and feels somewhat like Windows Phone so when they look for something more high end they'll be more likely to look at Windows Phone.

The 520 price at launch was 60% higher than the X.

While the X line is mainly aimed at growth markets (like the Asha line), it will sell well in Europe, too. Currently, if you look at the websites of European tech retailers, the 520 comes after two full pages of cheaper android phones. That is a problem, and while windows phone 8.1 aims at fixing that, Nokia had to do something in the meantime.

I do not think that the whole X idea was just about the price, but for sure that was one of the reasons. The 520 is still too expensive when not subsidized in some way.

The phone only slightly resembles WP with its home screen, everything else a user interacts with is android, how does that get them to look at Windows Phone?

They don't have the hardware division, yet. So, until the deal is finalized, it is business as usual. As WP gains more world share, we will start to see MS lower and eventually drop licensing fees all together. Just my opinion on it.

Rodan is right. Even after 2 years wp8 is still lagging in app numbers. Although its not a big deal for us wp users right now cos we have majority of top apps here.. But if this is your only device to connect to the world outside u ll need apps.. In large numbers to cater to ur every need. Nokia X can do this.. Read a report recently.. Nokia predicts 75% of all android apps will work on the X and rest can be coded in 8 hours. But as with any growing platform.. Users and the platform itself will demand a high end device.. Then nokia has to fight the urge to make high end phones cos that can directly compete with lumias.

but they can take the x to the very very dirty low prices required to get traction and cut a profit. Also, Android is the cheapskate os , there's no doubt about that. The frugal man's phone :)

The license fee for Windows Phone is $8 to Nokia.  Do you REALLY think that is going to make a difference?  No.  The difference is in building $25 smartphones that have crappy screens and touch, but are durable for remote emerging markets.  Think farmers and people who still have that 10 year old Nokia dumb phone.  If they can get a % of them to upgrade, it is a HUGE market.  And it gets them into the Microsoft ecosystem of using Skype, Bing, OneDrive etc.  It is a huge win for Microsoft to give up that $25 and get a bigger customer base.

Yeah, and it hasn't worked for them 3 OS'es later, despite the Finn's repeatedly saying how the Asha phone were selling million a per month or quarter. If it was selling so well would Nokia be acting so desparate??? Well they only have another couple of weeks to worry about it since the deal should be closed soon.

The thing is, the X series is not going to be sold in the US where the 520 is so cheap. You guys forget that in the countries where the x series will actually be sold the 520 is twice or more the price of the price in the US. The X series will therefore be comparatively much more affordable and will not cannibalize sales of the 520.

I don't think it will.  My guess is they will target markets where the 520 and its successors are not doing as well.  Of course, it could also be launched in places where it is doing well and WP has good penetration to further MS' dominance.  Places like Italy, Germany, etc. 

Not gonna happen....this guy speaking in the article above is just playing clean up. Did you guys not hear the displeasure in Joe B and the other microsoft guy voice a day or so ago when Joe B and the other guy was looking at one another in dismay wondering which of them would answer? In the end, Joe B answered and said competition is good.

What can they do? WP is a flop, there's no denying it. They need to be where the users are, and they aren't on WP.

That said, I think they should adopt a "first and best on WP" policy and just not release major updates on competing platforms first. They need to reward their most loyal customers.

Flop by definition is something that has no growth, stagnant and that nobody is buying. So Windows Phone is the opposite. You can argue that it ain't popular but that was never synonymous with being good. Even Justin Bieber has millions of fans and isn't really considered to be "good music". Lets think about that.

You are wrong. I am denying that WP is a flop. 

Reason of Nokia X: to catch customers (with no too murch money) of Asha and dumb phones to Nokia HW and MS ecosystem. I can't imagine that a customer of  a Samsung Galaxy or iPhone will switch for Nokia X.

PS: According to your logic is iPhone flop too, because it can't catch customers of cheap Samsung phones.

Windows Phone is a flop, in the US. In Europe and south America it's doing very well, even beating iPhone, and is the fastest growing OS.

It is a flop in china and India too. Andriod is king due to apps.. I guess that was the Nokia X for. lets see. If MS leaves Nokia X for long, i think that will beat wp sales and they will be in trouble.

 

Anyway As a Nokia fan, I will get Nokia X 5 inch .. hopefully before MS kills it.. I dont think MS will kill it.. they will not develop it and slowly kill it. But they will learn soon about how Nokia was pulled down.

 

If onyl Nokia did this X long back, they would be still around.

Not sure how a produst seeing huge YoY growth and currently the 3rd player and second only to Android in certain, over10% and well within 50% of marketshare with the #2 in many markets is a flop..

In your reasoning iOS is also a flop since it trails the market leader by about 8:1 currently. It's all a matter of perception. If you disregard the dominance of Android and take into account iOS really only has two markets whee they are strong (US 37% and Japan 68%) the argument is quite different.

Obviously, your definition of "flop" is your own and is not from any reputable dictionary because WP is absolutely growing (albeit slowly) and gaining momentum, which is definitely not the way Merriam-Webster Dictionary, Oxford Dictionary, Cambridge Dictionary, etc., define the word "flop".

WP is not a flop, it just doesn't have app adoption rate that consumers are looking for! Consumers have the we want it now mentality. First of all, Microsoft cannot dictate what Nokia does until after they've taken ownership; These X Phones were already in production prior to the proposed Microsoft aquisition which may or may not have gone through the board, FCC, and which ever European regulating board it needed to, heck it still isn't a done deal after 6 months or better, so Nokia was just being prepared. Since Microsoft cannot influence Nokia regarding any devices but the ones Nokia produces specifically for them (Lumias), they had to try to spin this thing in their favor....."Its about Microsoft Services as mention in the article" : |  do you not think Microsoft is ticked about this??? I'm sure you've heard of the statement, "Putting on appearences"....That's all this is. But after thinking about this, I do think there's an opportunity here for Microsoft to get developers onboard WP through this strange occurence. If developers will already making apps for a device microsoft already owns, why not expand the app to wp? Remeber, prior to this, many developers refused to develop apps for Microsoft (WP), but now they may just have a legitimate reason.

WP keeps growing by over 100% year on year and will likely pick up even more users with more OEMs in the fold, easier conversion of Android phones to WP, and 8.1, which is adding a ton of new features, especially for Enterprise but beyond that.

Android started out slowly too.  Now 32% of all Android sales are forked.  The Nokia X will further contribute to this.  Driving the forked Android sales to above 50% of total Android sales will remove people from Google's services while also leaving the impression that Google has lost control.

Between the patent lawsuits and the forking issues, I expect Google will cease working on and supporting Android in less than two years.  Forked versions will remain.  It's strange to predict that a dominante player in tablets and phones will be dead soon, but its success is largely illusory and the amount of loyal customers is small.  Then again, I think Google will be a better version of Yahoo in about five years.  Their per ad revenues are declining and they are desperate to find new ways to push ads.  They haven't been able to - and forked Android doesn't help them. 

Look up the definition of Flop in they dictionary and it reads, "Herein lies Blackberry 1984-2013" type on bb curve : )

how exactly are they making money from free services like Skype, onedrive. Even Bing on mobile doesn't have any obvious adverts or revenue, desktop yes. I thought that the idea of these free services like skype and onedrive was to drive people to buy a windows phone so MS makes some money.

I undertand from Nokia as an independent company may want to dip into android, but MS they are sabotaging WP.

Then they are even more incompetent than we ever imagined. Pop quiz, which platform offers Microsoft services and also gives you access to android apps and is more likely to be the one Nokia x users upgrade to? Take your time, this question obviously foxed the geniuses at Microsoft....

Not Windows Phone surely. Well not yet. Wait till we have Android apps on Windows Phone and then its all the same, no? :p

Well, Microsoft is good in destroying its devbase with strategies like this one. This Nokia X crap doesn't make the slightest sense to me. Why would you want people to use Android? Srsly WP Devs need every single customer on the Windows Phone Platform. Why luring customers to android with this move? Just because of Micrsosoft services? well shit, every Android device has access to Microsoft services via Play Store. What genius came up with this insane idea?

Let me say it out loud for you: MICROSOFT CANNOT INFLUENCE NOKIA IN ANY WAY UNTIL THE AQUISITION IS FINAL, EXCEPT WITH PRODUCTS NOKIA DEVELOPS SPECIFICALLY FOR MICROSOFT (LUMIA PHONES ONLY). NOKIA WAS ALREADY PRODUCING THE X LINE OF PHONES PRIOR TO THE PROPOSED AQUISITION OF NOKIA. DO YOU THINK NOKIA WAS GOING TO TRASH A MILLION PHONES THAT WERE ALREADY PAID FOR??????

Couldn't MS just fork WP(7.5) into those million phones? As sales and an experiment to convince OEMs that their Android Hardware will work on WP8.1... No?

Good use of the all-caps, as it seems a lot of people forget this. :)

Also, there's no reason MS can't release an optional upgrade/crossgrade to WP 8.1 for Nokia X phones if they ARE brought to market.

We've already seen the 520 running a pre-release build of 8.1, and MS has announced that WP 8.1 will run on unmodified Android hardware, so there's no technical reason why this couldn't happen, unless there's a memory cache issue (the only real difference between the CPU used in the 520 vs the one in the Nokia X).

There's no magic to the announcement that WP will run on android hardware, its the same hardware that WP runs on today, they just expanded the range of chipsets supported. And your idea of a cross upgrade wont work, its tricky enough updating the same OS to a newer version, you're just asking to brick the users phone with your suggestion.

There's no magic to the announcement that WP will run on android hardware, its the same hardware that WP runs on today, they just expanded the range of chipsets supported.

Never said there was any magic. Was merely pointing it out, since there will be no requirement for the 3 capacitive buttons at the bottom.

And your idea of a cross upgrade wont work, its tricky enough updating the same OS to a newer version, you're just asking to brick the users phone with your suggestion.

Not if the phone is designed to allow it. Hell, the almost 5 year old HTC HD2 could be reflashed with a variety of OSes, and handled it no problem, made by hobbyist developers.

Pretty sure that MS/Nokia could figure it out.

I just don't agree. One of the primary reasons for using Android is the integration with Google services (the real reason Google devised Android). Whether we like to admit it here or not, Android is the more popular platform and people are just naturally gravitating to it because of that popularity. Could Nokia release a "Lumia 320" to the market to compete even more with low-cost Androids? Sure, but that misses the point of the current situation. People in emerging markets are not avoiding WP because its a terrible platform, they are avoiding it because its unfamiliar. The X series is perfect because its "Android" so buyers are going to have familiarity with Android and are going to also be familiar with the Nokia brand. This creates a strong bond that will push the buyer towards the X series. From there its Microsoft services all the way because they are the defaults. In a couple of years, when I am looking to upgrade, what am I going to do? Buy an Android whose UI I don't know and whose default integrated apps aren't the services I currently use or WP, whose UI is very close to the X series and whose apps are already the services I use? I think the answer is WP.

Well, you miss the whole point. The X series is crap there is no familiarity, its not Android as we know it so there goes your "perfect" strategy. WP needs more users to grow and to attract more devs and thus gain more quality apps. Whats the point of luring users to Android when WP is desperately in need of a bigger userbase?

Problem with your argument is Microsoft services are available on android and users are more likely to care about their content than their UI and since android can be skinned to look like WP they are more likely to move to a platform with familiar apps and adapt to the new UI. Plus are Microsoft services that compelling in the first place? Its well documented that Bing is less functional outside the US so are Nokia x users really getting the best services they can?

No, you are definitely wrong on some parts. People are incredibly opposed to having to learn something new. No one will recognize android on the Nokia x. Imean, really, look at it and be honest. If you are in a store and knew nothing about the Nokia x phone and you see said phone, would you really think that it was Android? As experienced as I am I would think something was off, but I wouldn't know that it was android upon first glance. I would simply think some one is ripping off windows phone. It would simply be my curiosity that would lead me to discover what the heck it was by diging into the settings. My point is that people care a lot about the UI. That is the problem that most have with windows phone when I ask why they have opposed trying out the platform. The UI is not what they are looking for or were familiar with. Therefor, I guess I think the nokia x will flop.

I'm gonna buy the Nokia x and when I'm finished experimenting with it I'm gonna buy a Sony Z2 cause it has all Microsoft services and Google's.

Nokia as a brand means a lot in places like Europe or in growth markets like India. Currently Nokia lacks a credible low-end offer (the 520 is not enough "low-end" compared to cheap android phones), and the X line might fix that. Once you return to Nokia, you keep buying Nokia. Just look at the comeback the company made in Europe (think of Italy, where Nokia was really strong until just a few years ago). Problem is, the Nokia brand is going to disappear soon...

Moto G is a much better phone than the Nokia X. I am sure the target market for the Nokia X are consumers who are not concerned about specifications as much as we are.

I am waiting on the Here Maps/Drive apk to be leaked so I can install it on my Nexus 5. That way, I can save the precious battery life of my 1020 and have a larger screen for navigation than what is on my Nokia 808 PureView.

Come on XDA!

If MS continues with Nokia X even after the acquisition is complete, it will be sad. I don't like it.

I don't think so. This indicates that MS has no alternative to sport android app, only on Android HW.

While hardcore WP people are upset with Nokia X, I think the fact the MS is ok with it is a great thing. As you mentioned, its not just about WP here, which is only at 1-3% marketshare world-wide (if that). This is about the Microsoft ecosystem of services, OneDrive, Azure, Skype, 365, et al. 

If these features don't exist on the user's platform of choice, they can and will find alternatives. This means less people using their platform and services overall. Less revenue.

They are clearly not okay with it. But should they say the different thing and produce a phone dead on arrival? They cant not say it is okay because it is part of the deal with Nokia and Microsoft

Enough with the nonsense about how WP has failed and holds no market share! Yes, they do have a problem in the US, but luckily there are 6.7 billion people living outside the states.

WP is already the 2nd OS in South America and many European countries. We now have stabile double digits in most of the EU, and are about to overtake iOS in some of the biggest European markets (Germany, UK, Italy..). AFAIK India is picking up, while Asia in general needs more work.

I completley expect WP to overtake iOS in all markets outside the US/Canada in the next 1-2 years or so.

This Normandy strategy is sending the wrong message to devs (MS loosing faith in WP), confusing customers, may drive people to Android as their next upgrade and is alienating the WP power user community (check out the comments on our usual sites...).

As a former 900 and 920 user respectively I like the platform. There is no way with MS buying Nokia they did not know this was in the works. They do not love this, but I think they are ok as this will bring more people to the Microsoft ecosystem as a whole. While giving the consumer the choice of android. As far as market share, I think that is relevant. They are indeed picking up steam in other countries, but it still has a ways to go. Nokia had to continue business as usual, after the MS purchase, and this was their plan. Perhaps the low end market familiarity of android to some users, coupled with lots of MS services, they thought was a gateway to the Lumia platform and full MS. IDK

The X familiy is a bold chance and risk. If it work it will have a huge payout if it fails it will drag down especially the low end Lumia market with it.

 

These MS services pretty much already exists on other platforms and for those that don't will be coming before the year is out. It is not a complete ecosystem on the X because there will be Android apps. If I'm looking to move from the X to another platform it would be to a higher end Android device that would have the same services and still run the apps I've purchased already. Also it would be fairly easy to change services to Google.

You are wrong.  If history told us anything, especially from the PC world, is that non-tech people tend to stick with the default apps (which is why IE still rules the desktop browser market share, despite people keep shitting on how crap it is for many many years).  This happened with iOS as well with the crappy Apple Map which was inferior to Gmaps which it replaced but people stuck with it simply because it is the default app.  The fact of the matter is non-tech people are lazy and don't look for alternatives, so it doesn't matter that MS service apps exists on Android - because it is not a default app!  But they can achieve this with the Nokia X here by forking and shoving the MS service in people's face and when people use them, they will choose their next, better phone based on what comes as default, and that would be Lumia, not another Google blessed Android phone from Samsung or whatever.

Nokia certainly stole the spotlight with this announcement. No one seems to talk about the Galaxy S5 or Gear watch. Newsites, blogs and forums are all about WP, Nokia and Microsoft.

Just because they knew about it doesn't mean they're ok with it. Hence the "less than exciting" statement and the repetition of Nokia still being a separate entity until the deal closes. Its all Nokias decision right now imo, not Microsoft.

The excuse is, the X will bolster developing countries to acquaint users with MS's services. I thought the 520 was doing just that. With w8.1, WP devices can be made even cheaper! So how does the X factor into the equation? It doesn't! It underscores the 520 and all the would be cheaper WPs. I'd kill it too as it is a waste! Asha is a waste. Dumb phones are a waste. Developing countries doesn't mean people don't know what an iPhone is.

Of course they would say that they're ok with it. They wouldn't exactly trash talk the company that they're about to buy. They're killing this phone off, I'm calling it.

I really hope you are right. It seems logical for MS not to speak badly of Nokia. I truly hope the X devices never do enter the market. That may be possible if the acquisition is complete before launch date.

Surely this abomination before god will be axed as soon as the deal is complete.

Or they'll dump Windows Phone on it and say ooh look OEMs, case study for converting a sh!tty slow laggy android into something that actually performs well.

My WP (Lumia 920) lags like buggery, it ran fine with nothing on it, now that I actually have apps installed it runs like balls (and while I hate the fact that I can have sweet F.A. apps, less than half the apps I actually use on a regular basis, running in the background, I imagine it would be even worse if there was no cap), I can't wait to upgrade to a snapdragon 800.

I'd hate to see what some of the lower spec WP's perform like after owning them for a good few months (and actually installing stuff on them).

Oh, and it's always fun when some random program arses up the live tiles, people can say it's a fault of the programs as much as they like but when it's a Bing app that caused it most recently, that argument doesn't hold much weight.

I'm still a fan of WP and what it's TRYING to do, but it is so far from being the go to OS and needs a HELL of a lot of work.

I own 2 L920's, 3 HTC 8X's, and 1 L822; None of them lag, I haven't had any issues outside of apps.

Great, so all I have to do is not run programs and my phone will be jitter free, thanks for your help in rectifying my problem, now I will never see those little horizontal dots again or have my phone jitter on the home screen (which would happen after exiting an app).

Dude, my chauffeur has 920 jam packed with games and random apps. its been over a year of use. It runs as smooth as ever. My 2.5 year old HTC Titan has 18 games and about 60 apps everything runs fine. Its so smooth that even the tech support who repaired my screen at a 3rd party store, were SHOCKED to find out its a single core phone. I kid not. My current baby is a Lumia 1520, 2 months old so I cannot vouch for its 'lag-free' abilities as yet but I will comment in the future, but so far lag free.

Im sorry but I dont think you own a 920. im calling horse shit on this one bcs bullshit is useful to millions of people, its even used to create incense :-D

My mum and sister owns a 620, her fiancee a 520, my dad a 925. Nothing has lagged so far, im talking about a year old devices here, unlike my 1520.

Peace

Of course, I couldn't possibly own a 920, becuase I'm only using myself as evidence, see I need to spout about 30 family members who also own Windows Phones PLUS a whole bunch of hyperbole about random store owners before anyone would even THINK to believe I own a Windows Phone.

Nothing is perfect buddy, it's a fact. Am I saying that the slowdown in my phone is agonising and the end of the World? No, because it's not, it's a very minor issue, but I don't simply stick my head in the sand and cry bloody murder if any cries foul of Nokia, they are the only reason I own a Windows Phone, and I'm sure that things will improve especially, as I've said elsewhere, once I snap up a Snapdragon 800 phone I'll be laughing. However I'm not going to pretend that my phone is perfect because it isn't, if it was I would never have a need to upgrade devices ever again.

So feel free to shove your head firmly into that sand (or whereever else you feel like putting it) and I will continue to criticise my favourite companies so that tomorrow, they can be even better.

Typed on my non-existant Windows Phone.

Weird as both my parents went to 520 as temp phones until they can get a better phone on contract as their iPhone and ace 2 died on them and the only issue they tell me is how do they get songza working. Besides that they say its amazingly fast. And I'm on a 1020 so I can't complain with the 2gb. I had the 520 for 6 months so something is up with ur phone then bud

What people don't seem to get, is that this is actually a pretty good move for Microsoft. Its like a car dealership, you don't buy all the Ford dealerships in the city, you buy a Ford, Chevy and even a Dodge. That way your main client who likes Ford will buy from you, but also maybe that big client who likes the Chevy and Dodge side will as well. Because if they were going to buy the Chevy or Dodge no matter how cheap you make your Ford, then it might as well be you who sells them the others.

Or you plan to sell a Dodge, but since you don't have the services consumers don't trust you. Wishful thinking, nothing more. In the end, you will get problems selling Fords, because you helped finding arguments pro Dodge.

Or, since you are selling the stock Dodge Dart (Lumia X) with none of the features of the normal Dodge line (Android), but most of the features that your real money maker the Ford (WP) has, then when it comes time to trade in the Charger you'll pick up something you are now used to and even splurge a bit and get a GT (the WP lumia)

Pretty much to a T, you cant simply survive with just one product, you need different products to appeal to a wide variety audiences. Sure there are overheads but look at blackberry and where they ended up in comparison to MS they have services that generate billions of dollars. It is all about finding that right balance - spend to much - you might not recoup your costs and spend to little you might not get the exposure to sell (everything has an associated risk), therefore finding a monetization model that works is key. On the flip side, said model needs to be constantly evaluated to ensure its still relevant. From reading the comments it is apparent some people here I don't think have worked at all in business or marketing :p. Regardless everyone is entitled to their opinion.

They don't just have one product though. Windows phone is one of many and if Microsoft hadn't drug their feet as they did we could hav probably see even faster growth.

Using your competitors os while undermining your own is stupid.

They are doing a bit of both. Yes, they are making it looks as if they don't have the best faith in their own is by doing such a thing, but that's also being realistic and knowing your business. But they are also using Android against Google by doing this. Google can't do anything to stop them and Microsoft can basically make it how ever they want. They will turn it into a very cheap WP knock off and then people will get used to it, like how the services and everything syncs with all their other stuff, then when it's upgrade time go for the real deal.

Nothing about this strategy will get people to move to WP later on, nothing. The reason we know this is because its whats happening now, practically no one is jumping to WP despite it having cheap devices and all the services people are touting as enticements on the Nokia x. The real winner will be google when all these users upgrade to higher specced androids that have all the apps (including the vaunted MS services) theyve been using for years.

Very true, most people seem to think that if you release your product on a competitors product and such, that you've simply given up. But reality is that most of the time you just can't do that anymore. Everyone in the tech business at one point or another, has one of their products on a competitors platform.

Again what's the real benefit in introducing a Android phone if your going to spend days apologizing for it. These devices serve one purpose now. They were going to be the future of Nokia they are now the legacy of a company that Microsoft was forced to buy.

This phone will get people to Windows Phone. They buy it, use Microsoft's services, and when they're looking for an upgrade they see that the (more expensive) Windows Phones are what they have right now, just better. It's like a trial version of WP. It looks like it, it has it's services, but you can clearly tell that it isnt WP.

Because you can't afford the google phone yet.... It's all about MS providing the best experience for the best price... That will eventually win over time..

So how come there arent more people jumping to Windows Phone which has all the Microsoft services already if they're so attractive?

Might want to do some fact checking before running your mouth; outside the US WP is growing steadily.

Lets start with who will buy this phone, l doubt it will be any Android fans. This is just to get Google to play nice in the sandbox;

Many older people with dump phones who want a new phone and trust Nokia's quality and they don't care or know about what is an OS.

There are plenty of people out there with that mindset. As there so many elderly that have not even gone online in their lives and are still using dumb phones. My dad had his Nokia 3310 for years until he lost it. I can tell you he was pretty darn upset. The 520 is to much for him tech wise so i got him the Nokia 101.

They wouldn't choose the 520, because in the markets for the X the 520 is much more expensive. Only in the US is the 520 as cheap as the android garbage phones. Emerging markets see the 520 up around 200 dollars, way more than 100€

It is a win. They prevented that person from going into Google's ecosystem. Instead they pull them into the MS ecosystem. Remember, they still bought a handset and they are now using MS services. Doesn't matter that it isn't a WP - it robbed Google of revenue....which is the real goal of the X.

No disrespect, but Nokia couldn't survive by relying on the Finn's only and the quality of this device is subpar. I hope Nokia is ready for lots of returns. If they aren't returned, it will only be a result of people being locked in to contracts.

 

Signed by: a current Nokia customer

As i thought. Microsoft is already behind project X. To make people using microsoft service. Becausr it is "android" the most popular OS in the world. We have to admit it.

They had to say this, what else could they do until the acquisition is done? They cannot influenced Nokia in any way until they take ownership and this X line was already in production before the acquisition was proposed. Do you really think the going to ruffle any feathers at this stage of the deal? Besides, who in this forum wouldn't side load their favorite apps if they could? How many of unlocked our phone when the opportunity arose with the chevron unlock key?

Bullshit. For one, hey could say nothing. Two, they don't have to share the stage with Nokia, use a Nokia X and talk about how they are fine with it. Microsoft could have snubbed Nokia and the X and their developer day. The embraced it. Accept this.

Posted via the WPC App for Android!

First, we don't have to accept anything. We are the customers, and in more than one product category. Why can't these people realize the obvious? WP fails, because it is not competitive. Just as this is about to change in one haul, they communicate pro Android. There is zero chance, that these devices will generate enough sales. If they do, WP is done, effectively. Prepare for Nodroid Central.

What you don't understand is that you as a consumer - don't mean shit to Microsoft.  You're irrelevant as far as they're concerned. 

They built their corporation on enterprise applications, Hell the sale of Windows was only so business people could continue working from home.

When you can actually buy 5000 copies of Windows, Office, and Exchange Server packages, then Microsoft will listen to what you say.  Until then, you'll either take what they give you, or you won't. But it doesn't mean anyting to them.  

Look at the featureset of Windows 8.1  . Did you get what you wanted ? Because the companies that complaines got what they wanted.  (Start menu, default to desktop mode, limiting touch screen use)

Look at Windows Phone 8.1 ? Did you get what you wanted as a consumer ? Because the companies got what they wanted. (VPN, Certificates, file manager)

You (and I) mean nothing to Microsoft's balance sheet.  In fact, many shareholders want them to ditch WP altogether because it's not showing good profit margins in the US.  Just like they want to sell out of Bing and Xbox.  It's all about ROI, and in the US - it's not there.  They're too little too late to the party.  Not including VPN was a horrible choice and stalled any real growth in the US that they could've had.  And before you say "There's more than the US" I know that , but Silicone Valley with their hedgefund managers and venture capitalists could care less. And they're the ones that bring the capital to the game.  So what they say - goes.

Microsoft is an enterprise company.  The rest is merely pennies to them.

 

@Daniel Rubino

Then they should stop their Scroogled BS...their diss of ChromeOS and accept that Android will overtake Windows on laptops, tablets and PCs someday in the future...

The year of Linux is upon us...brace yourself people

Linux <> Unix but still you get the grip.

Its smart business to embrace than to outright snub their business partner. I'm just surprised that wpc is literally so positive about this crap as it is usually more objective than falling on "oh this idea is amazing" without looking at negatives. At the same time I'm also surprised at how many articles wpcentral has done for this.

When you say snubbed, do you mean killed the proposed aquisition? As for sharing the stage, why wouldn't they? They're about to own Nokia. I personally think Microsoft is looking at this as an opportunity to bring developers onboard with WP via this product just like they're saying it will potentially lure people to the Lumia line.

Microsoft could have snubbed Nokia and the X and their developer day. The embraced it. Accept this.

Actually, from reading the article and the quotes, it sounds more like Microsoft "accepted it" than "embraced it", and it's only in the comments where people's views become more polarized where it's turning into an either-or situation.

Until there's some evidence either way, I'm leaning towards a "they're so far into the production cycle they might as well get it out there" situation for when MS takes over. I'd also suggest that MS is holding their cards very close when it comes to how they'll handle X in the long term.

Embraced it?  Hardly.  Nothing I have seen indicates that they have "embraced" it.  Accepted it for now, is more likely.  Suggesting that they could have snubbed Nokia on their developer day is crazy talk.  That would look terrible.  Imagine the news reports of "Nokia releases 3 android phones, while MS is nowhere to be found"...Yeah, that would go over well.

Sorry, absolutely no one has detailed how this will benefit Windows Phone as a platform apart from some pie in the sky notion that Nokia x users will be so enthralled with Microsoft services and a knockoff WP UI that they will come running to real WP devices, abandoning their apps, data and other content in the hurry to switch so I find it hard to accept this is a strategy endorsed by Microsoft. And if we are to believe that Microsoft is ok with this then that right there tells us that Windows Phone as far as Microsoft is concerned is nothing but a side project that can be tossed aside the moment something better comes along. Good luck to them with their impending failure.

I agree. Why doesn't our favorite Devices and Services company release a Surface with Android, then? Why do they even bother with operating systems anymore?

This strategy is garbage. If this is indicative of Android apps on WP, then that means that I will be dumping my 925 for an iPhone. I do not see how this benefits Windows Phone.

I don't have the skills, knowledge or expertise to work for either, however I do have the right to an opinion, and a possible course of action as a consumer.

It is shaping up to be, cant wait to see the webcast and wp8.1 in all its glory as I have not been reading all the wp8.1 articles - only read about 3. I don't want to read no spoilers :p lol.

Dumb decision.

They were better-off not telling anyone that is based off of Android.

This way, people will simply be thinking that is only a knock-off version of Windows with a fine quality of Nokia.

Users knowing that this is Android will surely open them to explore Android as an alternative and MIcrosoft will lose users.

Worse-off is that Microsoft is fine with it, more insulting.

Microsoft is a big company with 130000 employees. This is bound to happen. Large departments have their own budgets. The one selling services do not give shit if they push it to WP or something else. We have seen this all the way with games, Xbox and so on. Lets hope the new CEO cleans up and gets the crew pulling in the same direction.
If Microsoft was really serious about this, they should made a low end WP with a Dalvik runtime.

And, they still might be developing a supper low end OS to replace this one, but they needed this now... You know how long it takes MS, and Nokia already had begun work.... I have faith that this will pan out well... Heck, it already has added popularity to WP the past few days... As a result of WP has received just as much attention as the NX... MS just better push Lumia beside NX in these markets..

Yup, its a marathon albeit a very slow and long winded one not 10 second flat out sprint. People by nature always think short term hence the common phrase "in hindsight I should've done this instead".

The concept is simple... Grow all of the services, that WP provides, on the most popular platform, and it won't be a hard transition for people to make to a WP device..
Instead of waiting for Google to provide WP with its services MS is trying to get these users accustomed to their services.. WP is the most feature rich platform for MS services, so it's a no brainer if those users want to upgrade to a better device....... This will work as long as MS keeps it's services on low end hardware...
...........................
I swear, I like the whole idea of the NX more, and more, everyday...

WP services already exist on Android.

What Nokia and Microsoft are doing is the strategy that Google used to grow their business, by flooding windows with their services. The problem with the Nokia/Microsoft strategy is that in the process they are increasing the market share of their competitor, by introducing new hardware running the competitor's OS; so they are basically chopping off their own heads by making it more difficult for their own platform to compete. A low cost wp device with Nokia branding would do just as well as any Android(Pretending to be WP) device running those same services. This WP look alike will only serve to create brand confusion, and prove to be an hinderance to the growth and perception of WP.

Even if it were going to increase Androids market share then it would be so small that it wouldn't be very impactful.. These aren't global devices, and MS seems to be not so worried with the shirt term affect, rather the long term affect of pushing it's services further in these emerging markets.. It's just not all about WP at the time... It's really about changing the perception of MS as a whole.. Then WP devices will sell themselves once people are onboard with everything MS, like a lot if people are with Google, and Apple... That's the bottom line..

I love windows phone so much but all you windows fan boys need to open your eyes. Android apps on windows phone would make the ultimate phone. It would be amazing....and MS was behind it this whole time. Nokia would need permission from MS to use their services. So how would the Bot be okay with it? Its all about MS not WP.

Exactly... Those developers would then go on to develop WP specific apps once the user base increase.. It's all about getting their attention..

You argument rest on the hypothesis that this phone for some miracle reason will increase WP marketshare, which is ... let's say doutfull at best

Why would you by a device running apps from a third party. Why not just get a device with the apps running natively, which would provide a better user experience? How is this strategy working out for Blackberry?

Those developers would then go on to develop WP specific apps once the user base increase

Wrong, those developers would stick to building Android Apps because they would cover both platforms by doing that. Why do something twice that you could do once? 

all devices run third party apps. Has google, microsoft, or apple made all the app in their app stores? Please thing before you speak!

Let me clarify, third party apps built for another platform. Those apps will not run natively on WP, thus the potential for a bad user experience.

If WP gets an Android virtual machine for apps it would be EXACTLY the same as running the apps on an android phone, which is simply running the Android VM over an incredibly basic version of Linux (which is why phones like the Nokia N9 or Jolla can be used to run Android apps, becuase they are Linux, so the fundamentals are in place).

Yeah but this is a different "kettle of fish", due to Android being free -- that is if you are referring to the Android/Microsoft fight. As far as I'm aware Microsoft developed OS/2, and charged IBM royalties. And at one point, IBM underpaid those royalties to the tune of nearly $17m. And IBM didn't want to pay it, and offered $10m. However, in the end, IBM settled with Microsoft with a figure in-between. Also, at some point Microsoft tripled IBM license fees. So yeah, I don't blame Microsoft for destroying OS/2 -- IBM was a giant compared to Microsoft at the time, but yet tried screwing them out of money. Therefore, IBM got everything they deserved in my eyes! ;)

That's different, if you knew what you were talking about then you would know that Microsoft worked with IBM on OS/2!!

Why would anyone buy a Windows Phone for android apps when you can just buy an android phone? What kind of roundabout reasoning are people using here?

This is a brilliant move by Microsoft. If the X does poorly, oh that is because it ran on Google's Android here use a windows phone, if it ran great, and people want to keep their Android apps, there is no reason why they can't add Android excluding Google to higher end Windows Phones. This is very coy by Microsoft they are willing to piss off Google in a big way. Very risky strategy but if it pays off very profitable as well.

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