Microsoft will carry on selling Windows 7 to the Chinese government


Yesterday it came out that the Chinese government had – for some slightly peculiar sounding reasons – decideed to ban the use of Windows 8 on its computer systems. In a statement to The Verge, Microsoft stated it was "surprised" by the move and has confirmed that it will continue to sell Windows 7 to them instead:

"Microsoft has been working proactively with the Central Government Procurement Center and other government agencies through the evaluation process to ensure that our products and services meet all government procurement requirements. We have been and will continue to provide Windows 7 to government customers. At the same time we are working on the Windows 8 evaluation with relevant government agencies."

So, at least for now it looks like Windows will remain in some form. Whether or not that rumored XP alternative based on Linux comes to pass, only time will tell.

Source: The Verge


Reader comments

Microsoft will carry on selling Windows 7 to the Chinese government


That "lots" are the ones who can't stand a change and by that effect progress. Human race would have been miles ahead if not every technological advances was challenged due to lack of a desire to adapt to new, better things.

You need to step out of your tech bubble every once in a while.
Not everyone wishes to have a Windows app store. & not everyone wants a control panel that is half metrofied, and half old school Windows.
Windows 8.1 is far from being a finished product. It has a learning curve that does make it more challenging (off screen panels/charm bars etc).
I can certainly see why Windows 7 is still selling.

It isn't my job to do such a thing.
Microsoft released a half baked Xbox One, a half baked Windows Phone (7 through to 8), and a half baked OS (8).
It is their job to make OS's intuitive, usable and powerful. 8.1 is a step in the right direction, but it STILL has too much of a learning curve!

That's exactly the point... It's their job, not yours... So it isn't for you to say if what they released is half-baked... The users are the ones who're half-baked... Not everyone is lazy to refuse progress... Windows 8 doesn't have that much of a learning curve... A person must be half-baked to actually think otherwise... Windows Phone 7 and Windows 8 were almost perfect... But users decided it was easier being lazy and just whine... Windows Phone 8/8.1 and Windows 8.1 are the result of that... Downgrades to the otherwise almost perfect Windows Phone 7 and Windows 8... I can certainly see why the world is in it's current situation... People refusing to learn something so simple... Yes... Windows Phone 7 and Windows 8 were simple...

Haha....what a backwards analysis!

You're taking the approach of 'build it, and they will come'. The reality is, there is a hell of a lot of competition out there....most of them focusing on absolute usability (Chrome OS for example). Windows 8 had a jarring mix of touch and non touch enabled UI's. The background screen on the metro interface didn't even match the background of the standard desktop!

For anyone upgrading from XP/Vista/7, Windows 8 was horribly confusing. I know, because I have seen it in a myriad of customers of mine. Windows 8.1 is a definite improvement. An OS shouldn't rely on people remembering gestures that are designed for touch when those people are using a mouse.

Windows Phone 7 was almost perfect?! Haha :). One MAJOR problem....the text was so ridiculously small that it was all but impossible for anyone with slight vision impairments to on screen text. There were many other UI flaws too....hence why there have been such a myriad of upgrades over the years.

Usability should be THE most important aspect of an operating system....everything else is secondary.


For someone to actually consider Chrome OS as a competition to Windows, I'd rather not take that person seriously then...

Like I said, learning Windows 8 it isn't rocket science... It's just the laziness of people... A perfect example is the number one complaint, which is the removal of the Start button... A button that is used by the majority to turn off the computer...

Really, you're going to complain about the backgrounds not matching?... Think about it one second... Seriously, think... What's the purpose of having the same background if the Tiles are going to cover it up anyway?... The Start Screen at least had a background that you could actually see despite the Tiles...

Upgrading from XP/Vista/7 to 8 is confusing... For people who can't even take half an hour to learn the changes... Again, it isn't your call if people would need to remember gestures... It isn't your call as well as to what things are for touch devices... All I can see on Windows 8 is hovering and dragging... Things that users have been doing on a mouse for years... I guess you haven't even tried to auto-hide the Taskbar before... It's pretty much the same as to how the Charms Bar works once you've tried it...

The text size wasn't ridiculously small... Text size is something I actually wanted to be smaller... That's coming from someone who has been using prescription glasses his whole life... Someone who knows what vision impairment is... It isn't small... People just need to accept they need to wear glasses if they're finding it small and stop pretending that they're young and don't need one...

I can agree that usability is the most important of anything, not just on operating systems... But it's hard to believe that coming from someone who thinks he knows what should and shouldn't be over a company that has been on that field for almost three decades...

The text size was laughably small! It made the phone nearly impossible for my mum to use (she now has a 1020 and LOVES it, in huge part because the ease of access settings allow her to have a text size that works for her....and which doesn't necessitate her fumbling for her glasses every time a message or email comes in).

Don't assume you know how people use the start button. I know multiple people that use the start button for everything - whether adding a printer, searching for recently opened files, finding recently opened programs etc. & yes, for those that use the start menu for shutting down the computer - why shouldn't they still have that option? As it stands, they have to go searching in the charms bar....or learn to right click the start button (when 20 years of OS use means they automatically assume the left button should bring up the start menu settings).

If the backgrounds not matching weren't an issue, why did MS add it?! Having two different start backgrounds just amplified the feeling that one was dealing with two different OS's bolted on to one another. At least Chrome OS does just one thing well -- it provides access to the internet. Job done.

I don't use and never would use Chrome OS. But there are billions of people out there who just need an easy to use internet browser in a laptop form factor. For those people, Chrome is going to be interesting, especially when Windows 8.1 looks that much more complex.

Speaking of complex, my Windows Store stopped working completely. I tried every fix out there....

I eventually just reset my computer. Not a biggie for me - but for other people out there, it is a hassle they could do without.

Windows 8 has some way to go, whether you wish to accept that or not.

Like I said... It really is something to find the text size on Windows Phone 7 small... Hell, I could crank the text size to the largest on Windows Phone 8 and still find it small, that's only IF I don't have my glasses on... It's simple as that... If you don't find something small with your glasses on then keep them on... There's nothing wrong with wearing them all the time...

Why would they want the Start button back for then?... All those things you mentioned could easily be done by utilizing the Windows key on your keyboard (Hint:it should be the one with the logo of Windows), start typing out what you need and it'll show up as a result... If someone has been using computers for 20 years then that person should also know that there's a tutorial for everything... Heck, you can't even skip that on Windows 8...

Microsoft added the capability to have the Desktop and Start Screen backgrounds match because of users whining about it... Just like you're doing... Windows and Windows Phone 8.1 were downgrades to their respective 8 releases due to those kind of users...

Since you've stating not to assume, then don't assume that there are "billions" of people who just need an easy to use browser then...

If an issue happens to a single user, then it's always user error... Not the fault of the OS...

Users has a long way to go... They need to learn to adapt... Whether you wish to accept that or not...


Nope, I have an Asus T100 on a dual screen setup. Of more relevance to this website, I have a 64GB edition Lumia 1020.

I am a Microsoft person - I need the extensibility of the system. BUT, I also see customers of mine (both private individuals and small businesses) that are baulking at the idea of having to adopt Windows 8. Much as we all like new technology here, Microsoft's efforts with Windows 8 have hastened the demise of Windows as the de facto OS in the mindset of many people.

Windows 8 was too much, too soon....Windows 8.1 is getting them in the right direction. & I am sure the next update will plug a few more of the usability gaps (am I right in thinking that a proper start button IS going to be returning?)

I am proud to say I have never owned an Apple product (aside from an iPod classic....but that's excusable because they were damn fine music players!)

Kudos to you spinzero. You clearly won the argument. Don't worry about Renan - he hasn't got a clue and barely put forward a coherent argument. People always talk of "progress" with W8 but don't see its many, many shortcomings. As of 8.1 update it's just now become a worthy successor to W7. I'd like the option to organise my start screen into folders so it's not such a mess... But then we're back at the original start menu :P

And many people had trouble transitioning from MS-DOS to Windows, or Windows 3.11 to Windows 95. People just don't like change, period. If you'd take a month or so and try Windows 8, it's really not much different than 7.

My mom, age 67 uses Win8 without any problems.  My sons, ages 5 & 10 uses Win8 without any issues too.  It always makes me laugh when people talk about how hard or difficult Win8 is when comparing it to Win7.

Regressive types are missing out on a wonderful OS either because of ignorance or laziness.

Or perhaps it works well for people with simple needs. For business users like myself I have hundreds of applications that need to be highly organised for efficiency - a start screen just doesn't cut it. I shouldn't have to memorise 200+ icons, in a wall of icons, to be productive. The metro interface is entirely useless to me and I don't want half the settings hidden away in a charms bar when they used to be easily accessible.

And the start menu wasn't? The start menu was just a wall of folders with the same icons. How was that easier to find any thing? They weren't even in alphabetical order. Group your icons and name your groups. Anyone with 200+ things to remember is gunna have a hard time using any OS.

You've been able to sort it alphabetically at least since Windows XP - just right-click, "Sort by Name". The point is that I need items to be highly structured when I have that many. I can't just search for what I want as I shouldn't have to remember the name of every single program that I have installed. I just create folders and put related programs together... then when I have a certain need I can go to that folder and find the programs for that purpose.

The start-menu occupies maybe 15% of my screen - it's incredibly easy to navigate without much visual scanning. The equivalent start-screen fills my entire screen, and I have to scroll the screen to see more. Yes, I can create vertical columns but then I have to visually scan through unfamiliar icons to find what I want. It's much easier to just read the names in an alphabetically sorted list of text, such as in the start-menu.

Your problem contradicts itself. You say there's too many that you can't remember the name to search for, yet the names are the only thing you look for. Even still, the new start menu has the name of the program on the tile as well so you don't have to scan the icons.

If that doesn't work, then put a shortcut folder on your desktop. It takes just as much work to make as making the folders in the start menu, and you get to keep your boring text based layout. You can even add it to the task bar as a new toolbar and boom old layout.

The point is, that's there's ways of getting what you want that take just as much time doing as it originally did when you first had to go through the process. But your making things more complicated when you complain about the situation and don't actively look for solutions.

Not a contradiction... let's say I have Start -> Programs -> Multimedia then within that I'll have "Photo Editing", "Video Editing", "Music Editing", "Music Players", "Video Players" etc etc. Then within each of those I'll usually have a few different programs that do different things. Once I've honed in on my folder to suit my purpose I have a choice of only a few applications and can choose from the list. I may not have remembered the specific name until I can see it right in front of me.

I never, ever, put anything on my desktop. I can't stand it when people do those things. I hide all the icons on my desktop for that reason. Anyway, it's beside the point - what you're talking about are workarounds, not solutions. The solution is for MS to provide an efficient way for everyone to do it, or a way to organise the start screen more effectively (which I'm open to). Give people a choice and let them decide for themselves.

It's only a work around when you call it a work around. My solutions solve your problem. Create a toolbar on your task bar based off of the Start Menu folder and use that if you want the old start menu back. MS gave you the option to do that.

A work around would be Macgyvering up a solution using 3rd party means. Not using options that are available(and have been for some time) on the OS. I was doing this back before the Start Menu had a Quick Access area. Which is the only thing the Start Menu was ever good for.

A business user that's using hundreds of applications... Really now?... Please do share a screenshot of your installed applications... We'd even help you out if you simple ask...

Don't be silly about this. In a world where iOS and Android have 1 million apps, you think a desktop user couldn't accumulate a measly 200?!
Seriously...just accept that some people use their computers in different ways.
I have an Asus T100. I have about 140 installed apps on my start menu. I'm not by any means a power user.
In fact, do yourself a favour and count your own apps list. You'll certainly be north of 100 individual icons in the Apps view.

Yes... One could accumulate a ton of apps if one just keeps on installing apps he/she doesn't even need... A productive person can accomplish a given task with the right apps... Needing a ton of apps just means a person isn't as good as he/she thinks... I wouldn't expect a person like that to go through the tutorial of Windows 8 or even learn the changes...

Don't be silly about this, a business that uses hundreds of apps?... As a whole, yes it's possible... But a person working even for a couple of departments wouldn't really use a hundred apps... Hence, the screenshot...

I did you a favor and counted mine... Aside from the pre-installed apsp, a total of 8...

What? 8?! That's insane! On my home W8 PC I have 58 apps and 60 games pinned to the start screen and 21 on my taskbar (stuff I use almost every day). In my full app list I have 216 applications (also includes a lot of the pre-installed stuff). I have far more on my home W7 install that I use it for development too (I can't be bothered firing it up right now).

On my Windows 7 start-menu at work I have 185 shortcuts in 54 folders. I'm a developer / programmer so I need a whole multitude of applications - various IDE's (several visual studio's, eclipse etc), various SQL tools (SQL management studio, MySQL tools, database comparison utilities, backup tools, other utilities), various source control programs, file comparison tools, FTP programs, SSH tools, collaboration tools, file backup utilities, numerous programming libraries/tools/components, graphics programs (all of the adobe CS6 suite, gimp, paint.net) half a dozen browsers, the Office suite... and that's not even half of it! Do I need them all? Not every single day, but in the scope of my job - absolutely!

I even have 187 apps & 110 games on my windows phone - I've installed and deleted far more than that though. I think my "reinstaller" list was already north of 500 apps last year.

Just because you have simple needs it doesn't mean that everyone else does... and you don't need to be so condescending about it either

I love when people complain about this. Took me all of 20 minutes to get used to the changes on my workstation.
"But but but I'm a power user and it disrupts my workflow!!"
Give me a freakin' break. I challenge anyone who claims this bs to perform tasks in Windows 7 faster than I can perform them in 8.

lol this

I love when these "productivity people" are completely unable to employ their own "productivity" and simply replace every live tile with just shortcuts, you know, like their beloved old start menu

productivity my ass

Exactly, "Productivity" crap! At first I just opened "C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu" and docked the "Programs" folder to the Start Screen, guess what, at "One" click I was at all my Programs! Same as 7! Later I docked it to the task bar so I did not have to go to the Start Screen once I was at Desktop. Took me just a couple of click to have same funtions as 7. Now with 8.1 one still works and I use more the smaller tiles for the same purpose! People are just way too silly!

I could almost accept your other comments, but the half-baked Xbox One is particularly unfair. It's the way game console development always goes these days. Have you read any of the books by Dean Takahashi or others on the crazy pressure cooker that is game console development? It's a process of non-stop feature triage all the way to launch. Hell, the PS4 still can't play MP3s, and we're now 6 months after its launch.

I always get flamed flamed for saying it....BUT, Microsoft is in rude financial health. They have tens of billions in cash. Sony on the other hand are facing their second straight year of very high losses.

Microsoft can afford to spend their way out of making errors. They can afford to hire more devs, and they can also afford to offset some losses by continuing to include Kinect. As it is, they have still not even got the console close to feature parity with the 360! They haven't really demonstrated WHY the kinect is (/was) such an important part of their vision...so it really is no wonder that it (kinect) is a failed project.

After their diabolical PR disasters in the year before release, Microsoft's executives should have thought....'jees, we're close to losing the battle before it is even begun....let's appease the customer, and match Sony on price --- whilst ALSO giving our customers Kinect. Let's also go on a recruitment drive to ensure that our system is THE system to buy. & let's match Sony's equipment on a hardware level too'.

I really like MS products - I just cringe at how glacial they are in getting to where they need to be. I want to have one MS ecosystem for all my devices. But as exemplified by Skype or Xbox Music for Windows Phone, Microsoft just don't seem to grasp how important it is to have complete and functional systems. Hell, I get more functionality out of the Outlook app for Android than I do on my Windows Phone 8.1 device!! (Why can't I choose which alias I want to use when sending emails?!!)

If by "too much of a learning curve" you mean the less than 2 minutes I had to spend explaining to my wife and 7 & 8 year-old kids the basics of Windows 8, then I dunno what to say to you.

They LOVE Windows 8, btw, after using Windows 7 for years.

Not to mention that there is a tutorial upon the completion of the setup... They probably got copies that didn't have one... Hahaha...

Man the real live experience. Everyone i see win8 being used, i do not see the fuss. Like yesterday a girl was using her fingers as a mouse on a excel sheet, through she was using a laptop. People are not the fools on tech forums.

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No OS is "complete product". If people in technology world had a complete product, there wont ever be words like "updates" and "upgrades". IT pros will die of hunger.

yea its also the reason that hp isnt the same hp, that lenovo has become the favorite computer company, and that microsoft out sell them all, the future will move on wiether those poeple do or not, some people will never own a smart phone etc, some people still has beepers, and still use pay phones etc.when cars fly some people will still be stuck on the ground.

I don't everything I could do on windows 7 is still there plus more and the fact that my boot up time is nearly halved ill it my computer runs way better than it ever did with windows 7 its practically the same once I hit desktop, yes there is a days worth of learning some of the shortcuts but that with any new product if yall wanna live in 05 that's fine I get around just fine via touch or mouse and keyboard yet windows 7 can't do touch for nothing

Who says you have to use the app store? Just uninstall all the metro apps. Who says you have to use the charms bar? Disable it. The control panel is still there. The learning curve should take you maybe a 1/2 hour to get and maybe a couple of days to get used to. In many ways, win 8 is still win 7. The only truely major change, if you don't use metro apps, is that you have a full page start menu. The default location is a place to pin favorites and you click on all apps to get all the apps list (just how the old start menu worked). There are no folders, but it is grouped and can be sorted in several ways. People really should get used to using search to open apps even if they use win 7.  When I see comments like yours it is obvious that people haven't taken the time to really think of the changes are about. Tehy are thinking how to make teh OS work like the old OS instead of thinking how they can utilize the new UI to make their work easier. When the start screen is organized it is way better than the old start menu.

Once their era is gone, it'll be good riddance. Touch and voice is the future and I'm glad MS is sticking to their guns.

Such a lame argument. "New" isn't always "better". "If it isn't broken don't fix it" could apply here. W7 is an outstanding OS. W8 felt like it was made by a schitzo who couldn't quite decide between 2 OS's and just mashed them together. W8 8.1 update 1 is *finally* a great OS to use on desktop. Get rid of the start screen (aka Win95 desktop) and I'll be happy. Applications belong in a highly organised list, not a wall of icons like the bad old days where people launched everything from their desktop.

What's funny is that most base their perception of a good OS on the UI.

Apart from the UI (which is obviously a matter of taste), Windows 8 is much more efficient than Windows 7. I still can't believe it runs so much better than 7 in my crap laptop.

Agree, not just the UI but its also less resource hungry unlike W7. It does everything faster from required boot time to shutdown time that too, consuming lesser memory.

Actually you know, it boots up fast as it caches most of the boot up stuff already. Go into settings and see the option to disable it, then you'd know. Anyway, notice that when you click on restart, it takes considerably longer, because on a restart it doesn't use the cached files.
But i dont mean it is not efficient, it certainly is miles ahead of win7 !

Yes but isn't that too an advantage to have this option over Windows 7? Restart can't certainly use cache data for the fact that whenever new software or drivers are installed, changes has to be taken into consideration. Yeah its ahead of Windows 7 that's why it's 8. (I know many users in my colony too who won't upgrade, they fear the change but I keep saying its easier, faster and lesser prone to virus attacks)

Not all people can adapt to change specially the fast changing technology. You are one of them and those you mentioned who put W7 on their W8 devices.

you can even use CRT Monitor and Scroll Mouse instead of Super AmoLED and Laser Wifi Mouse...try to sync yourself to new version of every thing and you will have happy life... feel it.. it is true! Windows 8.1 update 1 is amazing fast fluid and responsive...use it with Office 2013 and you will feel the changes!

What's funny is that w8 has w7 right there. When you go to the desktop, that is win 7. You don't have to use metro apps. You can disable the charms menus. You still have to use the start screen, but just think of it as a place to pin stuff like you do on the desktop. You can keep your desktop clean and pin all favorites to the start menu. I just don't see what there is to hate. If you are not using metro, it works basically the same as win 7 with improvements to file explorer, faster boot times, etc.

1] drivers: WiFi on Intel chipset => Random crashes
2] the way Microsoft treats Consumers and Developers alike
3] there would be more, but you only wanted 2

I have not been experiencing any issues of that sort firstly. People who encounter such issues are usually the ones who fiddle with them a lot. If you do, then you should know how to correct the issues. Secondly your second point is on Microsoft on general, nothing specific on Windows 8. Or could be applied to Windows 7 as well.

Not entirely true, my mother has a machine running 8.1 and she constantly has issues with her Wi-Fi drivers. It's a pain in the ass to try and fix constantly, and the most fiddling she'll do with her computer is an occasional change of wallpaper.

Because Microsoft is in charge of an Intel Chipset...it's the companies who need to update their drivers to support Windows 8, not Microsoft who needs to stay stuck in the past with old tech because other companies don't want to put time into it.

Lol those were the crapiest two reasons anyone could ever state..and if those were your first two reasons then you really have none......Wifi?? Come on really??... Nay an issue with wifi on the four windows 8 devices I own.... And I believe Microsoft is working with developers to ensure smooth transition of apps between w8 and its entire ecosystem..trying to fix the bottleneck that was happening between at Redmond...also with the many development tools Microsoft gives developers and even going so far as to pay developers to make apps... I say they are trying to do more good than harm.. I call shenanigans on you sir!!!

Another two....
1. Only some system settings are available through the metro style system settings. The rest are in the standard windows control panel (confusing to people that don't live and breathe tech).
2. Even if you choose to work entirely on the desktop, there are times when you'll click a file and find yourself in some half baked metro app.
Windows 8 is just more confusing. I use it personally, and like it....but I don't recommend to anyone that needs a simple computing experience.

First, the metro style system settings are what have been changed, they have corrected the easy access issues of some settings in Windows 8.1, I personally find out more useful for all my settings to be in one single place rather than be spread out, as for your adopted offsite you can always change your default programs, not exactly software programming, the settings that are available in two places because of Windows rt, as you guess world moan more if they made it metro only. It's not that hard to make it metro only.
Windows eight is not confusing, some people just hate changing and cannot get used to changes, that is their fault. If you want to be stuck in stone age it's your fault. Stop blaming others for not developing a product that fits the 80's style of computing. I don't see people complaining with other OS's that have a similar functionality.

Those who dont live and breathe tech, they don't need those settings which are in the desktop control panel and not in the metro one.

Giving people the *choice* to have a traditional start menu is too hard...? (a UI feature that has been with Windows for more than two decades!!)


What are you talking about? 20 years ago we were still using windows 3.11 waiting for windows 95. That had windows called the program manager and no start button! People seem to forget for example the xp fiasco now. When xp First came out it was terrible and it needed numerous service packs to get it right, service packs are commonplace now but it was xp that started the trend coz it was so terrible. Now everyone is saying how it is the most stable and best OS ever. New OS's are now being used in a myriad of devices including sound systems, televisions, cars etc and we want them to work seamlessly with each other and to do that people are going to be willing t to change. I digress about xp but try going back to your car dealer or electronics store after 13 years and tell them that your car or gizmo should still be honoured or serviced by them like xp!

yeah because you can't right click a file and see what default program it has.............
people in stupid mode I understand and putting everything as an excuse to say "Windows 8 sux"--

I wont even comment in your first reason, I mean... why would you even care about the modern settings if you obviously want to work in desktop? it's not like I expect to find schedule or driver managment or the log in a modern settings.... because that's not what is meant for.

but seriously... a negative point is to have default programs you can't change anytime? hahahaha
please just stop using computers if they don't work by default as you want. it's not like I loved Windows 7 opening pdf's by default, oh wait, it doesn't even have an app for that.
or opening notpad for txt or wordpad for docx..... yeah right, you can't never right click a change the default program. but it's windows 8 fault

I am writing from the perspective of the vast majority of computer users out there....i.e., people that just want things to work in a comprehendible way.

I personally enjoy using Windows 8.1 - but I can see how it is a mind boggler for people that don't spend their time frequenting websites such as WP Central.

Pull your head from your behind and look at W8 objectively, and you'll realise that it is nowhere near as easy to use as W7 for the average user.

Microsoft still has a way to go before they provide a good balance of future proofing/usability.

That is such a lie, and everyone only needs to told to click the desktop icon and they are good.

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And then what? The desktop should have recycle bin and almost nothing else. It's not a bloody app launcher or file storage area

Different and easy are being used wrong, nothing about w7 was easy itd just what ur used to windows 8 is simple, you have big blocks that point out what inside and once you realize that its simple, windows 7 is a bunch of left click right click guess and check you learned over time, the FIRST time you used a PC you couldn't find nothing, my 2 year old can find anything she wants on my surface or my windows phone even knows how to use cortana to play songs

You do realize how complex the system settings are, right? There's probably way too much in there for Microsoft to be able to port it all over, which is why they ported the essentials and what would be used by Modern apps. Imagine having to bring over something as "simple" as the Sound properties...

1) The limited settings that a user would be likely to access while using a tablet are the settings that have been duplicated in the Modern UI to make them accessible via touch.  Those same settings and all remaining settings are still avialble via the Control Panel.  I don't see anything wrong with this approach.  It allows settings (that make sense) to be changed while in tablet mode while keeping the more complex settings for more complex devices.

2) You do know that there is a setting to configure which apps will be used to open certain files right?  Apparently not or you wouldn't have metro apps opening when you click on a file in desktop mode.  Take a look at Charms Bar >> Settings >> Change PC Settings >> Search and Apps >> Defaults.  It helps to configure Windows 8 for the device you are using before you complain about it not working to your preferences.

That's kind of opposite basic settings in simple metro ur advanced things which most shouldn't mess with are in your STANDARD control panel

Windows 8 is identical to Windows 7 plus more. You can boot straight to desktop mode and it looks just like XP, 7. Everything runs better then XP, 7.

Like WiFi on Intel chipsets? Really? REALLY?
Also a new install doesn't just wipe out the partition involved,
but the whole disc of informations!!! All the partitions! Nice surprice on a Terabyt scale!
Windows 8 does many things much much worse than ANY other OS *EVER*

What the hell are you saying?...
I installed Win 8 on an HD with partitions, where the SYS partition was beloging before to XP, then to 7, and now to 8.
I never had one single crash. And I use it every day for very heavy work.
And no, it doesn't seem faster. It IS faster!
I recommended to many friends, and all of them just saw improvements saying always the same "...It's another computer!"...
You wrote a few comments trying to bashing Win 8, with something that really is pure science fiction.

I hope you are not one of those who are still searching for the Start button...

please just stop commenting you are too ignorant....
only because you and few people have problems with their intel wifi, is that a microsoft problem? lol... Intel can update the drivers and surely you can too.
why Intel has this supposed problem (I never had in 3 laptops) and other companies no? oh yeah, because it's about INTEL not Microsoft or Windows 8....

It is not identical. It STILL doesn't have a conventional start button. It is also impossible to remain solely in the metro interface (system settings for instance are a jumble - split between the standard control panel and the touch interface settings menu).
There are two internet browsers (IE11 touch & standard) - you can never be quite sure which one will open from a link!
Windows 8.1 is confusing in a way that 7 just isn't. It's a step in the right direction, but it isn't better on a pure usability level than Windows 7.

Go to Internet Options > Programs > Choose how you open links, and you can select to always use metro or desktop browser.

Thanks for this (I've now changed that setting). But that kind of reinforced my point about the settings issues. That setting can only be invoked via the settings in the desktop browser...so for the vast majority of people, they will have to put up with two different browsers opening. It's unnecessarily confusing - and is something that MS should address (perhaps with a basic settings screen on first launch that asks how we would like IE to display)

Cheers for the tip though.

You're only putting up with two different browsers opening when you're in a different environment! Stick to one and you won't get the other... Simple

1) It does have a conventional Start button. The menu is just full screen...
2) Only the essential settings were left in the Modern environment, with everything else being on the desktop. Its probably gonna take a while to move all of those settings over, if they choose to do so.
3) If you're in the desktop environment, it'll open the desktop version of IE when you choose a link. If you're in the Modern environment it'll open the Modern version.
Maybe you should fiddle with the OS a little more before you bash it on every single comment.

With update 1, windows 8 is much more useable for mouse and keyboard users. When I first installed 8.0 on a virtual machine and a old machine I got a headache, everything was nuisance to access with a mouse for instance you had to bury the mouse pointer in each corner to get into the relevant zone. However it is perfect for touch (and still is), right now to speed up adaption they need to copy all the settings from control panel and have metro equivalents. This way those who wish to solely live on the desktop can and those who want to live in metro environment can. Why? Simply because there are insane amount x86 applications which people need to do their work. The aforementioned applications may never have metro equivalents due to copyright and trademark issues.

Loving Windows 8.1, and can't wait for the next OS/Large update. (Be it 8.2, or just 9) I'll be for sure trying out Windows 9 Preview! Possibly in a virtual machine first to make sure things don't get deleted along the way lol, though I usually refresh my PC to retain its Speed, so loosing everything is not a big deal. Since anything important is backed up to Onedrive, and a external 3TB Drive :)

Same here, I have tried all iterations of windows 8 on a virtual machine and I do like the way they are going for mouse and keyboard users. People who complain that mouse and keyboard users are keeping MS behind; need to remember that not everyone has the funds to get a touch screen laptop or an AIO. Plus there are those who may have spent an insane amount of cash on gaming laptop before touch became the norm. As well as the fact majority of the private sector and public sector rarely or slowly upgrade - clearly evident by the fact certain government are spending millions for extended XP support despite MS telling everyone a few years ago that XP will no longer be supported from April 2014.

It's not just funds but practicality - I don't want a touch screen on my desktop 1) because I sit more than an arm length away 2) I value my eyesight (sitting closer ruins that) 3) I value my posture (hunching over a desk to reach a screen ruins that) and 4) I don't want anyone but me f*cking with my PC - it took years to teach my managers to keep their greasy hands (and pens!!) off my screen... If they know they can control stuff with their hands it will be smear-central :P

I know how you feel with other people touching your screen... dear god...


But When you use it as a desktop (Preferably when using the Docking Station) you can have it at any distance, or even better use a HDMI Cord to set a second screen, or set it as your ONLY screen, meaning your currect desktop Screen can be used as the screen of your surface, or a second screen. Thus making it more of a desktop, plus if you have a USB or Bluetooth Keyboard and/or mouse, you can use them too, or buy the Cover Keyboard built for Surface using teh Magnet, no Bluetooth or USB, then you can get a Surface Mouse, there easy to pack up, and cna fit in your pocket, they are bluetooth.


So none of the problmes you mentioned would be a problem.


The Surface is a All around Machine, it works as a Desktop, Laptop, and a Tablet.

Windows 8.1 rocks. I can't use Win 7 ever again. And this isfrom using touch and non-touch laptops. People tried hard enough to learn when the first computer was developed, and the first touch phone, ipad etc... why can't they just try now? I don't know. It's worth the little effort it takes.

It probably boils down to necessity and the fact that most people are not technically minded to upgrade incase they lose their data - majority of people have their data and programs stored in the same partition as their o/s. Once shown what to do, they are always like "is it that simple?!".

Same here, after using 8, 7 seems so limited, I'm always looking for the metro world whenever I boot up 7 lol, not to,mention the overall cleaner look and those adaptive windows colors of 8.
Been using 8 since 2012, I'm already waiting for 9. It makes me laugh when people say 8 is no good. Please lets move on, can't take everyone along anyway, natural selection I guess!

I installed win 8.1 n thats workin faster then any OS i had before... Guy if u need somthing n u sayin not techi techi then wat the hell ur doing in computer space go and use calculator or some typing machines... If u say computer that mean ur talkin abt tech... Go and take some basic classes and then speak up

Knowing how chinese are ,it would not be a surprise if they come out wid "vindows" or"yendows" since they can copy almost anything XD

They just wanted the publicity. Microsoft will work with them and by next year it will all be solved. I mean, the Swedish government is going to be fully equipped with Windows 8, China will follow.

Politics. China is trying to get back at the US for calling out their spies(even though the US is much better at spying.. just ask a US citizen).

I'm guessing it's all over Windows 8.x's need to be in semi-regular contact with the Microsoft Mothership.

I don't understand what the problem is. Any company with an enterprise license can get copies of Windows 7 already. I'm pretty sure the Chinese government is large enough to have something like this.

The Windows 7 crew is just ridiculous. There is nothing missing from the Win 8.1 desktop that is in Windows 7 except the stupid start menu, and there are a gazillion ways to add it back if you would rather peck around than just hit the Windows key and start typing. Don't like the app store and metro? Don't use it. Boot to desktop. Fact of the matter is there isn't a single use case in which Windows 7 can outperform 8.1. It even boots 50% faster Ok the same hardware. It's just ignorance.

Win8 has problems with non touch screen laptops you cant drag and drop to close win app (i know you can right click and close it) but its pretty much meant for touch screen users and that fact leads to win 7 ownage over win 8 however in 8 is better compared to win 7 in every other way except the touch sceen interface

I am biased I haven't used windows 8 much on a laptop but I don't like using any pc with track pads always prefered mouse

I don't understand how you say for first time users windows 8, or phone is complicated, neglect anything you know about droids PC, iPhone and just take a look, you have big stupid tiles that say internet explorer, people, phone, games, music, if u couldn't navigate ur way thru that and realize all u have to do I swipe to get anywhere u wanna go ur an idiot, you show a complete tech illiterate and give them a demo surface vs any Droid tablet and see which is easier to use or a windows 7 PC

I own a computer/cellphone store and windows 8 blows...cant do anything with it in my store. Android ADB doesn't work on win8 most phones dont have drivers that work on win 8. I bought a new laptop and have to run windows 7 in a VM just to flash phones for customers. Did I mention win 8 blows

The problem is that Microsoft never show,you that you can go to desktop mode in windows 8 in their adverts stop people complain about the whole os being just tiles. Maybe people are too lazy to try and see,for themselves but Microsoft should at least advertise better.

my 5-year-old little girl learned & navigates 8 with a mouse & keyboard, no problems; she still uses win7 & iOS like a pro