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Xbox One without Kinect for $399 in June, Netflix and HBO Go to be decoupled from Gold accounts

Microsoft has just announced that a Kinect-less version of the Xbox One will go on sale for $399 starting in June. What's more, Microsoft has confirmed that Xbox Live Gold will no longer be required for any entertainment apps, including Twitch, YouTube, Netflix, or Hulu. Users will still also be able to watch live TV and use OneGuide as well as Skype and OneDrive.

To offset the loss of value for Xbox Live Gold, Microsoft is expanding the offerings, including bringing the following new features to the service:

  • Free Games with Gold for the One console coming in June
  • Xbox 360 users will get a bonus game in June, including "Dark Souls," "Charlie Murder" and the bonus game of "Super Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition."
  • Deals with Gold will also launch for Xbox One in June; "Forza Motorsport 5" and "Ryse: Son of Rome" will be the first discounted games, with some more surprises coming

If you buy an Xbox One sans Kinect, Microsoft will also be selling the unit later in the fall as a separate purchase, should users want to upgrade their consoles at a later time.

Clearly Microsoft is taking an aggressive move against Sony with these actions, allowing them to lower the price of the Xbox One while still delivering enhanced services like Skype, OneDrive and those entertainment apps. What's more, Gold members will still get free games and exclusive content, making their subscriptions worth the cost.

Source: Xbox Wire

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Reader comments

Xbox One without Kinect for $399 in June, Netflix and HBO Go to be decoupled from Gold accounts

250 Comments

Whoa!! Does this mean I can have free Xbox One games in my download queue even before my Xbox One arrives this summer?

I will have to say its too fucking true Microsoft is badass but they need to take that stick out of there asses when they do things like this

Sony ruined the future of gaming by forcing Microsoft to do this. The Kinect had so much amazing potential that'll now never see the light of day.

With so many million Xbox One's already sold with Kinect, and probably the majority going forward also sold with Kinect, I still expect good things.

Nope. Peripherals have always failed to get proper development. And the Kinect just became a peripheral. As soon as the user base becomes fragmented, developers have zero incentive to invest the extra resources to develop extra features for a smaller user base. Sony is anathema. They are boring and hinder innovation.

I agree with your comments about peripherals, as I think about the power glove from back in the day. However, I don't view Sony in a bad light, not at all, and they definitely don't hinder innovation. If anything, I think MS dropped the ball by originally making the kinect so invasive. Also, I realize some people love the all-in-one concept of the xbox, but I prefer my game systems to be just that, a game system. I don't need my game system to try to handle everything. 

Maybe just maybe from 1st party dev but there is no way its going to shine the way it was once intended with this stupid move. Sad times for gaming innovation.

I totally agree coip. At first I was hesitant on the Kinect. But honestly, I have grown to love it. I walk in the room say "Xbox on" and it turns everything on and logs me into my live account. I say "Watch TV" and it switches to tv. I say "Watch NBC" and viola...I'm watching my local nbc in HD. If I'm level grinding and want to watch some tv at the same time, I say "Snap TV". If I need to devote my whole attention to the game, I can say "Full screen". While so far, Kinect in games has been iffy, I did find a little gem in Thief where if I'm crouching behind something and a lean one way or another, my Jaret does also. I thought it was kinda cool actually. And DR3 picked up sound and drew the zombies to me. In Tomb Raider, there were some voice shortcuts, that I knew about, but just didn't really see a need to use. I see this as a disappointing step backwards. While I'm very happy that Netflix is coming out from Xbox Live, this announcement just sucks.

Don't be a noob, just because you and I don't care for this package some people do. This is an excellent move by microsoft giving people who can't afford or arent willing to pay 500 USD to excuse to buy a PS 4.5

I'm not being a noob. As a developer and a consumer of Xbox and other Microsoft products, doing this damages potential developers and whatever they create to be able to use the Kinect with their software. This was a big reason why Kinect support on the 360 was... awful. Now developers will concentrate less on the Kinect support and just be lame PS4 developers.

Noobs will say 'oh fuck them fucking retards' to some effect. This is a move for $$$$ and their investors, but NOTHING towards development.

I understand what you are saying but I doubt the impact on developers will be great so long as the great majority of people either buy the bundled version of xboxone or but the Kinect separately later on. My bet is that this will happen, while improving Microsoft's image with consumers who didn't want the Kinect initially.

Sure, and while this will work for them now, may not work for them in the logn run. Just in advertisement, I see a lot more XBox content than I do for PS4. I try not to see it with MS goggles, but this is just truth. A lot more interesting games coming for xbox and not ps4. this is not to say they don't have any but, I see better with xbox. Only difference is that devs are having trouble developing for 1080p on the xbox than the PS4...

In terms of pure content and potential, the xbox one had it. I fear that this move will hinder them in order to AGAIN find a way to get the user to change their habits. This in my mind, is still a weak move, but a very Microsoft move at that. In time, everyone adjusts because, well, this is what is out there.

I completely agree with your comments.  This is similar to the whole DRM fiasco the focal minority complained and Microsoft did a 180 on it.  What makes MS or devs think that "oh, hey, customer will buy the cheaper one now and buy the other component later?". Not sure that strategy will work.

That DRM mess still irritates me. There is no doubt that the industry will end up there. It wouldn't have been so bad if the digital version of games were made considerably cheaper then the disc version, and give us a much larger hard drive, or the option to actually swap it out without voiding warranty. I actually liked where they were heading with DRM. But the vocal few forced the change. I really liked not having to swap a disc every time I wanted to change a game. And with the change, we lost the ability to instantly switch, like play a game, while waiting for a match in another game to spawn. Oh....you can't resell your game. Heck, I gave up on that long time ago when I realized that I spent 60$ on a game, sold it for at best 20$ of in store credit, only to find it being sold for $40, and none of that $40 went to the developer. It just forces me to be more selective in my game purchases, and watch actual game play of a game before purchasing.

Uhhh ... the whole reason they dumped that DRM and Always-on crap was precisely because NO ONE WANTED IT and their fanbase lashed out at them.... severely.

This is just step 2.  Kinect is fun to goof with, but in the end it is not needed.  And if you think its needed, great.  You have your right to an opoinion.  Mine is Kinect sucks.

No one needs their game console to (very poorly) replace their cable box.  No one wants it.  Its a frigging game system, and if I wasn't so anti-Sony due to their past business practices and crappy internet play, there is a very, VERY good chance I would pick up a PS4.

Take it from someone who bought an XB1, played with it for all of 2 hours, and took it back to the store because lack of media streaming and ridiculous Kinect training.  Not to mention lacking any game I was interested in.

The Xbox One is still always-on right now, and I like it. The people who were complaining were also the ones wearing aluminum hats awaiting the arrival of aliens with a welcome mat.

The Kinect might be for goofing off for games, but for apps and voice commands, this was a fantastic feature. I, myself use the voice commands and appreciate them. I don;t need or use Kinect for Kinectimals.

Not too sure why you are angry at MS or Sony, but you also need to understand that people will and have used the Xbox as a media center and not just as a gaming console. There is a BIGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG reason why everyone can't wait for the Plex app to arrive. PLEX man. Look into it and you shall see that this is big (and also other media apps). Sure, anyone can buy a chromecast or apple tv and add their PS4 or PS3. But now that creates many devices when in fact, you only need ONE.

This is the goal. Kinect should have stayed on the console and they could have taken an approach by lowering the prices on the xbox. not so sure they can make up sales by removing the must-have Kinect.

Its was not only intended for UI. Something new like this as a part of the core experience takes years to develop something solid for as it requires a new way of thinking.
Now where I fault Microsoft is the fact that they had nothing substantial being developed of their own preparing for the launch window and just ended up making then Kinect look like it was just an after thought when in fact that hardware is very powerful and very capable.

I do: "Xbox, go to Titanfall." "Xbox, snap party." "Xbox, broadcast." "Xbox, record that." "Xbox, volume up."

"xbox mute" "xbox pause" "xbox play" "xbox watch espn" etc. Having pause and play by voice is awesome while having pizza grease on your hands. Kinect is awesome. I am mow constantly telling my tv without a xb1 "xbox turn off"

I live in a room for at least an other year. I wouldn't have any use of the Kinect for the moment, I think this idea is great for consumers who don't want to use it. (I certainly plan on buying the Kinect eventually, but for now I wouldn't be able to use it anyways :/)

When I heard I had to have the Kinect with the xbox one, I thought the same thing. My room is very small, and the bed and other furniture is too large for the room. I have no room to do any type of movement that are required for Kinect sports and such. I felt it would be a waste to get it. But after using the system since launch, I have come to love it. Sure, I can't play Kinect Sports, but it is still very handy for turning the system on, along with my tv and surround sound, navigating, and other commands. And it still manages to surprise me in some games. I don't regret getting it at all. And there will come a day where I will have it in a larger room.

It is not a shitty move. To get a full xbox experience people will NEED to buy Kinect. Its just an accessory you can add later. The intial sticker shock is what people are experiencing, when they buy Xbox One without Kinect for $399 and start buying and playing games or do whatever Im pretty sure more than 50% will realize the want for Kinect so its win win on both ends.

Probably.  I mean, the camera is optional on PS4 and apparently pretty much everyone who bought a PS4 bought the camera anyway.  So selling the Kinect separately and reducing the Xbox One's price is an extremely good move.

Sony itself who said in a podcast, PS4 Camera sales could do and be better. Its 50/50. Plenty of complains, also "its working well". So far, do i like the Kinect more over the PS4 camera. Like some say. There's still a gap in differences.

Not necessarily. If this Kinect-less model gains enough traction, then we could be seeing a repeat of what happened with the first generation Kinect: it becomes an optional "accessory" that's hardly utilized apart from 1st party games and games specifically made for Kinect functionality (Kinect Sports Rivals, etc.). Just because developers can add Kinect-specific features doesn't mean they will, especially if A.) the game is multiplatform, and B.) half of Xbox One owners don't even have a Kinect.

Most games don't really benefit from Kinect integration. The ones that do already have a base of consumers now (which will still grow), and they'll give reason for others to get the Kinect later.

 

It's one thing to have something like Kinect for $50 more on a console that stands equal otherwise, it's quite another to have a weaker one for $100 more (not that specs REALLY matter). Despite a very good start from XBone, the PS4 was starting to get a "next-gen-winner" -badge and "go-to" -mindshare, MS is now able to combat that.

Except that's not true.  The PS4 launched 2 weeks before the Xbox One, and is in more markets than Microsoft, yet the last count had what 2m more units shipped?  Sorry, but this is a horrible move, and one that will hurt Microsoft's larger vision of Kinect.  The main point to requiring the Kinect wasn't so much for the "full Xbox One experience", it was also to get devs to create new and existing ways to game, while using different input methods.  So now, if there is a significant minority of Xbox One owners without a Kinect, developers aren't going to release games that potentially could have a better experience with Kinect but will instead develop for the lowest common denominator.

Except multi platform games will never take full advantage of the Kinect, even if this Kinect-less model wasn't announced. If you're releasing a game on 2 to 4 platforms, what's the point of utilizing Kinect on multi platform games when PS4, Wii U and PC can't? It's a similar situation with the Wii U. Most multi platforms on the Wii U barely utilize the GamePad. If anything they'll slap a menu or map onto the screen but that's it. The Kinect is no different.

Then might as well throw out SmartGlass technologies as well, right?  Sorry, but that arguement doesn't hold a lot of water.  This move yet again causes Microsoft to backtrack their vision of the Xbox One.  DRM was the first one (which I completely disagreed with the vocal minority that DRM should have been removed.)

No, because SmartGlass has application outside of gaming (navigation, menus, commands, etc.) just as well the Kinect does. I'm just saying there was no chance of Kinect finally becoming a hugely innovative game-changer with regards to gaming as many people might want you to believe. It does a good job at enhancing the overall living room experience, but it'll suffer a relatively similar fate that the Kinect v1 did.

And minority? Maybe within the spheres of fanboys here and on other Microsoft fan sites, but they were definitely not a minority. Otherwise MS would have had no reason to backtrack on DRM. You appeal to the majority, not the minority.

"it was also to get devs to create new and [exciting] ways to game, while using different input methods"

Devs already did that with Kinect 1 and the best anyone could come up with was dance games. The fact that not even Microsoft couldn't execute on thier visions (the family F1 game with jr. as pit crew, or the original idea of Ryse as a full body combat game) just reinforces how unsuited the Kinect is for core gamers.

I think this is to help the system to sell in some of those markets (such as China) that Xbox is about to launch in. It allows Microsoft time to work on Chinese language commands before they release a system that includes the Kinect in China. And since they are going to launch a Kinect-less system in China, might as well offer it to everyone.

In "1st World" nations, I would imagine the Kinect system will still be the biggest seller. $500 for a ten year device really is a drop in the bucket when compared to the amount of money people will spend on an iPad that will be unsupported in 24 months.

That's some heavy exaggeration, given the iPad 2 and iPhone 4 launched in like 2010/11 and are both on iOS7.

Either way, off topics aside, I like this move. Its been needed.

Well, slight exaggeration. The original iPad was released in 2010 and is stuck with iOS5. While Xbox 360 was released in 2005 and still receives OS updates. I'm just pointing out that in countries where disposable income is less of an issue the $500 Kinect system will still be a hot seller when compared to the lifespans to other things we spend our money on.

However a $400 system with a completely unlocked app ecosystem will be a hot seller in China, where consoles just became legal.

They had to. Not even Microsoft could come up with a compelling use for Kinect that justified making everyone buy it.

They had thier six months (plus 5 years for Kinect 1) to show why gamers would want one. They couldn't. It's time to move on.

I wonder how much all the Windows 8/Xbox One backtracking cost them in brand equity and developemnt time.

True, and one reason is because the Kinect added too much to the cost for little to no benefit. I honestly expected MS to come up with some killer app for Kinect 2 to prove it was different than Kinect 1, but after six months the best they can do is Sports Rivals?

Microsoft stated over 80% uses Kinect each day with 120+ voice commands a day. So I guess its not the Kinects fault. I really do think the Fanboy wars took a part that Microsoft made this decision. But now they are planning new kind of apps specially build for Kinect. Starting this June, to give it a boost. Giving people a reason to buy a stand alone Kinect releasing this fall.

Drew, as Talbot says, its cos you've not owned one.

Its amazing how you get used to using voice commands. I now find it irritating I cannot shut down my PC by shouting at it like I do with my Xbox One.

* Note: Even cooler, I can have my 360 and One on at the same time, but because Kinect controls my AMP, I can still mute the Xbox 360 with voice!

Battlefield 4 "need ammo", again, its a small thing but its so convenient. I love my Kinect, and I didn't think I would this much. Wouldn't want to live without it now.

Atta boy.  It's awesome to see how much of an armchair "commentor" you are.  Before you voice your opinion that you spew out as fact, how about you actually try using it, m-kay?

Yes, continue to tell the market what it should want, I'm sure they will be grateful. I am in fact sitting in a chair while "commenting". I suppose you are "wolverine" hunting?

I'm going to say this in a nice way, clearly you don't know what you are missing.  It is one thing to sit on the sidelines talking about how you don't see something as useful.  It is another to actually use the damn thing every day.  I use Kinect to control my whole media experience with voice control alone. I don't even care if they create another game with Kinect integration.  The media aspect on it is worth it.  Now if all you do is play games I get your point, but if you watch netflix, hulu, cable/sat tv, or even listen to Xbox Music.  You will come to understand just how useful voice controls with Kinect is.  I pretty much only pick up my controller to play games.  

The console really isn't worth having without Kinect. Titanfall looks like a last gen game with worse gameplay. Kinect is really the only next-gen aspect. I would describe the machine as crap without Kinect.

>Titanfall looks like a last gen game with worse gameplay.

Er... what?

>I would describe the machine as crap without Kinect.

I really do hope you are not in the position _ever_ of being a decision maker. Or allowed to drive on public roads.

Sigh you are so trolling man.  Everyone just likes to get on the net these days and bitch and make ridiculous statements.  

This means now that kinect will see very little third party devolpment.

Very sad day

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Finally! Now maybe they can ditch the stupid icon that shows the Kinetic not connected and add auto-login feature. I'd would however like to see Cortana on the One, she understands me.

I agree with you and like the Kinect and find it works almost all the time for me.  But this change was brought on by two things: 1) The PS4 outselling the X1 significantly and 2) The Kinect adding little total value to the system.  Don't get me wrong, I like using the voice commands, but for the average consumer, do you want cool voice commands, or do you want to spend $100 less?  It's sad that outside navigating the dashboard, recording, and basic commmands in games that there is no value to Kinect.  Kinect Sports Rivals just came out, 5 months after the system launched.  I was looking forward to creative ways that indie devs could utilize Kinect, but now they're not going to have much incentive to do so.

Oh darn, I rarely use the Kinect - currently stuffed behind my TV so I can bark commands at it when I'm feeling lazy. Apart from that, not much use... could have got myself another game or controller lol. Oh well looking forward to the Games With Gold :D.

Well Skype is great I live a state away from my kids and family we can talk face to face and the kinect and zooms in so if we are talking to the grandparents and my 2 year old is running around it will follow her

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The skype is superb, I actually wish more people had an Xbox Only in my family, because all of them remark at what a superb picture they see of my living room. All I see from them is some prehistoric built in web cam that looks shocking. And Xbox fitness is very underrated. It is actually damn good. And the volume controls are perfect.

Xbox pulling no punches going into E3! If this is the short of thing they couldn't fit into the briefing imagine what they have got! So excited. Watch out Sony!

Yeah MS smells blood now with all the recent Sony news being about billion dollar losses and execs taking 50% pay cuts. They're pulling out all the stops to finish off their injured rival. Next they'll start lowering prices and bundles, Sony surely can't afford a price war.

Looking at what they are saying this includes bundles. So a kinectless titanfall bundle at 399 is great value. If they keep updating the consoles every month like they have and keep listening. I think the ride may stay turning. Especially when they release in more regions

And not to forget Sony over uses the 1080p and 60Fps thing against Xbox. Today the official watchdogs site took a move against Sony by removing that " 1080p and 60fps statement only on PS4 best experience " from the site. Simply the devs were kinda mad it was demanded by Sony to put it on the site.

Yes over time. Both version will get to that point. But at launch, PS4 version is on 900p and 30fps, announced and admitted by Sony today for the mistake that they made on the watchdogs site. It was a PR stunt against PC and Xbox. & Xbox one will be at 792p and also 30fps. PC version runs 4k on unknown fps. Watchdogs devs will announce short after release when the upscale update will get available. Hope this helps ;)

Not that the 50% pay cuts are actually necessary or the result of losses, it's just a symbolic move for their shareholders. Nintendo did the same thing, despite also being unnecessary from a business perspective. And I hope you're looking forward to paying $1000 for the Xbox Two, because, with the way Nintendo is looking and no Sony, that's what you'll be paying for your monopoly-controlled device.

I understand the pay cuts are symbolic and I certainly don't want to see the other consoles fail. I've owned gaming devices from all three companies and I'm open to buying their consoles again. Currently xbox games and entertainment have more appeal to me, and the constant online hating and bashing of MS products has been a little over the top. I'm more glad to see them start to show some assertiveness to try and get back on equal footing.

That argument will sadly never grow old.. as people will keep bringing it up and besides its not like all games on the X1 have been or are limited to 720p...

True, it isn't in the real world, but it does seem to be on the internet fan sites, which drive perception and sales.

As a PC gamer it's been very refreshing to have my console finally stop looking twice as blurry. 720 is good enough to have fun, but if you've been gaming for years now in 1080p, it looks pretty terrible. It's a matter of what you're used to I guess.

A real shame. Now the Xbox One has lost its main differentiator against the PS4. They better have some good exclusives coming otherwise why get it when the ps4 is same price and more powerful. Also I love my Xbox One.

They needed to do this, they're about 3 to 4 million behind in sold through numbers would be my guess. More if you go with sold to retailers. This will hopefully even the odds.

They've got alot of work to do, alot of my more casual gaming friends still think the Xbox One can't play used games, and know ps4 is more powerful. It's more of a perception issue than anything at this point.

bingo. This isn't MSFT doing anything as much as end-users deciding they want a cheap console first. IF MSFT had come out at the same price point, things may have been different. but their kinect sensor is too expensive for them to absorve the cost.

consumers have spoken. MSFT is merely reacting based on financial realities.

The console has no chance of mainstream success without Kinect. Sony is dying, why would you copy the business model of a company that is failing? The guy in charge of Xbox doesn't understand anything beyond games. Xbox will be sold off now. This doesn't just kill Kinect, it kills Bing on Xbox, it kills Skype on Xbox, it kills any chance of Xbox taking over TV viewing. Microsoft will dump a stupid game machine, they wouldn't dump an all purpose entertainment machine.

I know tons of people that have said they would purchase an Xbox One if they could buy it without the Kinect. Your argument is invalid.

It's not an argument. I was just stating things I've experienced personally, as are you. I'm an Xbox fan i want it to succeed. But even the most ardent Xbox fanboy can see they have some work to do.

That's exactly the problem. Now instead of 100% of XB1s having Kinect, developers can expect maybe 20%. Goodbye to all the innovation that motion control could have had if developers knew they could expect hardware support. Now it will be stuck as a microphone forever.

This move will sell more Xboxes, but it's shortsighted in the long run in getting developer support for motion control off the ground.

The killer motion control app has yet to be written (in my opinion - not a fan of dancing or sports :-))

 

Write one (not just talking to you, DalekSnare - ANYBODY), and suddenly there's a compelling reason to have a Kinect.

 

(Besides which, I think your 20% number is REALLY pessimistic.  Xbox One users have shown themselves to not be particularly price-sensitive :-))

Yes. Sadly they are the folks that will kill xb1. Kinect was to be what tied it all together even if it doesn't do a perfect job at this time.

I think they know how valuable kinect is for the true experience. This is a strategical move to further weaken Sony. I think they expect people who buy the kinect-less consoles will still end up buying the kinect add-on at some point.

According to reports don't were settling out the eye camera quicker than they could make them. So I expect people to pick up a kinect at some point.

"Further weaken Sony"? Hmm, not sure how this does that my friend. Sony is doing gangbusters right now, in fact the PlayStation division is probably all that's keeping that company afloat. If anything this move puts the Xbox on equal footing price wise, but I doubt it will impact sales of ps4. It's still early however, alot could change when a new Gears of War or Halo comes out.

I'm sorry but, Sony isn't bringing the big guns to E3. The list is shorter than what Microsoft will show. 3 games I want to see for PS4 and 1 of them, ill doubt it will make it to E3 due to the many layoffs. Double that for what I want to see from Microsoft and excited about.

From what I hear, Nintendo is supposed to make a pretty big splash with some new games at E3. Starfox, Metroid, and Zelda would be amazing reveals! Doubt they'd hint at all three though at once. Still love my Wii U! Haha

U do know Nintendo Will not give a show at E3 again. They Will do a show close after E3. Don't See the logic of that but oh well. Yes zelda and starfox is rumored to Be shown. And Metroid is planned for Japan only for 6 months. Again, no logic in that. After all the negative views on Nintendo. I really hope The 2 new machines they will bring next year will put them back on the positive side.

so... Nintendo will bring the same crap with just new graphics a little changed story and idiots buying it again?
look how stupid starfox has been after startfox 64, and Zelda is the only decent thing but it's like Sega milking Sonic, just Nintendo use Mario and Zelda. I would rather just keep my Snes and play the same titles with cooler graphics and gameplay ;)

I think they needed to compete on price.
Developers weren't doing anything special with Kinect. Microsoft can still incentivize Game Developers For games like they did with Rise and Fifa.
Otherwise this is no great loss.
Sooooo looking forward to Microsoft E3.

There's always going to be someone bitching no matter what Microsoft does. It's a lose lose situation that's just as frustrating to me as it is them.

Not really, Sony is make a heavy loss with the PS4 and the agressive roll out..it's not a sprint but a perpetual marathon :P.

to a point. but if they fall too far behind they know they will be in worse shape for the next iteration. there is also the risk of xbox becoming an irrelevant property which after years of building, they would have to sell at a discount.

or one cheap htpc... I remember I saw really cheap ones from Intel (you only need to buy memory and HDD and stuff which is not so expensive), which would support more formats and apps with Win8.
even Raspberry Pi sounds good and cheap

Yeah, my kids' 360 is in his bedroom, not the living room. It will stay that way until he has his own place. No need for Kinect or media stuff.

The addtional functionality for the "media stuff" is all software.  Removing it from a "gaming only" xbox wouldn't reduce the price of that device.  The hardware would be the same and the software would still need to be developed for the devices that did have the media options.

So remove that software and take out the developing cost of it then. I didn't vote for a media software in my gaming. But oh well. One can dream.

God forbid that any company create a product that doesn't cater directly to your exact needs while ignoring most other customers. 

 

Most of the cost of these consoles is in the hardware anyway.  The extra functionality provided by software adds very little to the cost when it's spread out over every device sold.

He wished for one thing, I wished for another. Its that simple. Everyone has different needs. Mine just happen to be that I don't need or want all the media stuff. I don't even have cable. Just internet. I'm not gonna pay for cable either. I'm not paying for companies to advertise to me. That's all it seems like it is now. Shows are shorter and I feel less thought is put into the scripts nowadays. I don't watch sports either. So yea.. Everyone can dream for a product that they can love 100%.

I would actually be ok with this. Would be buy as a second device as long as I get voice commands a la Fire TV.

I would love the extended media device. Have it link to my xbox account. I would then consider Netflix or something similar.

Absolutely! And throw in Skype!
I have been fairly content with my ps3, but was considering an upgrade to Xbone, but let it be, because of the need for a damn subscription for Skype, Netflix etc.
Might have to reconsider now! Might M$ be listening to their customers?

I was just playing dark souls yesterday and wishing it would be a GWG game so there would be more people for me to "help"

To truely compete with Sony's PSN free game offerings, they're going to need to do more than that though. Games from 2013/2014 would be a start.

Eh, the media streaming stuff never bothered me - I already paid for XBOX Live and Netflix - I don't feel like I was 'paying twice' since I wasn't going to be without XBOX Live anyways.

All this means for me is that my profile won't need to be signed in for my wife to watch netflix when I'm not there.

 

Also - when is the HBO Go app coming?  Seriously!

Wait this doesnt make anysense! The xbox with kinect and a copy of titanfall is currently $450! This deal is awful!!!

Oh look, Microsoft releases an Xbox One for a cheaper price and without the basically useless for non-US citizens Kinect. Just as I said months ago they should and would certainly end up doing.

It seems I was right. Again.

 

Now, where are those clairvoyant commenters that categorically said "they won't release it without the Kinect. Deal with it"? Oh where, where are they?

 

And now that the price is lowered and the useless Kinect out, I'm going to consider actually buying an Xbox One. You did well, Microsoft. Apart from the time it took you to do this and the time it will still take you to release the damn console worldwide, you did well.

 

I wonder how Sony will counter-attack.

Lol I'm right there with you man! The Kinect is absolutely useless for me and a ton of people I know will now buy the console! Pretty stoked actually!!

"I'm going to consider actually buying an Xbox One." But...but...MS Hardware Sucks....and...and the only reason you're here is because of NOKIA. I knew you were a closet MS Fanboy DJCBS, glad to see you're coming around.

And it does. At least the Surface does. And so does their webcams. The only thing is: Sony hasn't restored media streaming capabilities to the PS4. Which is an imediate deal breaker for me. The Xbox One has them. Also, if I don't like the Xbox One and the hardware is as bad as the Surface, because Xbox it's the only really popular Microsoft piece of hardware, I'll be able to resell it way more easily than I can resell a Surface or even a WP.

Dude, I predicted a kinect-less X1 within 6 months of release back when they first announced the console and Sony undercut them. I think everyone saw this coming, some just denied it.

Sony must have done something to piss them off. All this news dropping now MS is acknowledging this is a war, and they're fighting back.

Sony didn't do anything new, really. They're simply beating Microsoft on sales and I think that's enough of a motive. By the time the Xbox One arrives in several European markets, the PS4 will have been available for a year already. Which means Microsoft standed little chance of selling the console to people who, in the meantime, got a PS4. This will help a bit.

Awesome all around! I don't care about the cheaper one without Kinect - already have one with it and would have bought it anyway. Similar for the entertainment apps... I would be close to cancelling my Live, but now I'm addicted to NBA 2K14 - started me gaming again for the first time in years - so probably won't do that anytime soon. Will probably be buying Forza with that Deals for Gold and am looking forward to the free Games for Gold, too.

Also notice that on the XBOX One - the free games are only available with a valid xbox live gold membership. Your membership expires - so does your access to your game.

From what I can tell - this DOES NOT apply to the XBOX 360.

I still greatly enjoy my Kinect. It's easily the feature that most impresses people that I show the XBOX One too. Simply because I can say - "XBOX On" "Watch BBC America/ESPN/CBS/MLB Network/etc..." "Go to Titanfall" "Go to Netflix" "XBOX Turn off" Everyone I've shown that to has had to pick their mouths up off the floor...

Oh well, I'll still use it :)

I find it incredible how some can spin what can only be described as a good move by Microsoft for the XB platform into a massive negative. They have essentially removed most (if not all) of the arguments against buying into the platform... I love my One w/Kinect but it's not for everyone - some want vanilla. And, making online services available without having to purchase a gold membership is a giant step forward...

Sign of the times. Seems like its cool now to hate on MS products on the internet. They could start giving them all away free and people would still find something to bitch about.

This should help boost sales quite a bit. A lot of people, including myself, just didn't see the value of Kinect. I know it has some great capabilities, but I buy my game systems to play games and watch Netflix. I dont really need or want voice commands for that matter. I'm perfectly fine with pushing a few buttons to get Netflix to open.

This was a very short-sighted move in my opinion.. Kinect was the differentiator.. It was the extra x-factor that made the Xbox One different and was the extra hardware addition that increased the value proposition of the Xbox One once they finally got the price down to the same level as the PS4.. A Xbox One + Kinect included for $399 > A PS4 for $399.. They should have just ate the initial cost and made up for it in obvious consumer value over the long term.. Now it's just the "weak" Xbox One for $399 vs the more powerful PS4 for $399.. That still doesn't equate to sales from the causal consumer's perspective.. There may be a short term sales spike but in terms of the long term, they just killed any kind of potential the Kinect could have brought from having a 100% install base and they just killed any kind of hardware value advantage of eventually dropping the price of the Xbox One with Kinect included.. Bad move by Microsoft in my opinion.. You know it's a bad move when the competition and Sony fanboys probably just breathed a sigh of relief at the announcement of Kinect being unbundled rather than feeling panicked or apprehensive about the news

One thing to be a differentiator, another is a must have differentiator, kinect is not that.  Being different doesnt sell consoles, having things people want does and kinect is something that people really dont care about and it clearly shows in the sales performance so far. 

Then people can say, wait for the games, no kinect game will ever be a system seller. 

I think it is safe to say that after 5+ years of Kinect 1 and 6 months of Kinect 2, that we know what kind of experiences we are going to get from it.

There won't be some kind of creative outpouring that creates must-have experiences we never thought of. It is basically a voice assist microphone and a dance move analyzer. The size of the install base won't change that.

Not worth $100 to me.

 

I'm not trying to be rude. But seriously? There is nothing short sighted about this decision. Guess you know the future lol. Hmm lets use the past as reference. That's more logical. N64 vs PlayStation. N64 was far superior on a technical basis. And was worked by ps1. Original Xbox far superior to ps2. Again the less superior won. Xbox 360 vs ps3 vs Wii. Wii not only destroyed the other two, until recently the ps3 reached sales of Xbox 360. Ps3 being the most powerful of the 3 by a small amount. Moving to current.To say the ps4 is more powerful is yes true. Technically. But its marginal. Lets look at how devs had kits 12 plus months before Xbox one devs did. Microsoft wasn't even ready to release xb1. But couldn't wait. And did damn good considering they released it ahead of schedule. 30v60 fps again marginal, considering its unlikely 90 percent of the population would have seen the difference if they weren't told. 1080p again marginal, its about learning the tech. Again ps4 devs have had more time to lock this in. And the next wave of games. Just like last Gen will close the gap. The average consumer doesn't even know these things. And to assume they do is ludicrous. $ is a massive factor. Maybe not for all. Kinect is a cool idea. But for many, it's not a reason to buy a system. Yes it made it different. And would have made since if the content was there but it isn't. Take into consideration that in America Kinect is possible. Many ppl have a place that it can be used. But not all. It doesn't work well in small rooms. Many kids have s console in their room. Look at countries like Japan and many many others they don't have huge living rooms like American. Kinect should have always been an option. This was a huge positive business decision. One not made lightly. And yes this will undoubtedly increase sales. One last look at the past. Nintendo. Every time a game boy. Ds etc. Remodel comes out, or new colors the thing sells like hot cakes. We aren't talking about the next platform, just a new color or redesign. It's not short term sales it's maintaining sales. Keeping a product fresh and in the mind of consumers. Who want the newest things at the cheapest price point. I respect your opinion. But feel it's very flawed.

Yes, its short-sighted.. As you said, look at history.. The PS3 came out the gate at a price point that was $200 higher than the direct competition.. And it was because of Bluray.. Something that has even less to do with gaming than Kinect.. And what happened?.. Every critic and every gamer cried and moaned for Sony to release a Bluray-less SKU that was $399 like the Xbox 360.. And had they done that, their precious Bluray movie format would have failed (HD-DVD was giving it a serious run).. And beyond that, in the long term, they would have lost the advantage of having the added value proposition of saying "hey both the 360 and the PS3 can play games for the same price, but the PS3 comes with a free bluray player".. That's when the PS3's sales started to pick up.. Once the price eventually evened out with the 360 yet they still gave you more hardware in the box.. Microsoft had that same potential if they would have stuck to their guns.. Eventually people would be able to say "hey both the PS4 and the Xbox One can play games for the same price, but the Xbox One comes with a free Kinect camera".. That kind of added value is undeniable to a casual consumer who just wants the most bang for their buck.. And I agree, being priced higher than Sony is killing them.. But a better course of action would have been to eat the costs of keeping Kinect and dropping the price rather than essentially killing Kinect and making it about as much of an afterthought to core games as the PS4 camera add-on.. And even had Sony decided to cave and dropped Bluray from the PS3, there wasn't this public perception that the PS3 was the weaker console. Yea, hardcore gamers knew that 360 multiplatform games performed slightly better than the PS3 versions for the first few years but your average consumer didn't have clue.. But now with the battle cry of "PS4 can do 1080p/60fps and the Xbox One can't!!", even the most casual gamer has the perception that the XB1 is running on inferior hardware yet you want to charge the same $399 price in an apples-to-apples comparison without Kinect to offset that power advantage?.. That's a fail right there.. Time will tell and believe me, I'm a huge supporter of Microsoft and the Xbox One but I feel they let the business side of things scare them into killing off every "next gen" idea they had for they're console.. Now it's just a "PS3.5" like the PS4 but with less power

First to compare blue ray and its assential benifits to the kinect is pretty halarious. The reason i say this is that Blueray for the PS3 was integral. It was surrounded by Sonys main buisness model. Being that the playstation is actually only a small portion of their main buisness. The ps3 with blueray was meant to get ppl to jump into the market for this new media type just as with the ps1 and the ps2. With that a clear competative advantage with each console in media storage for the games. the ps3 literally wouldnt have worked without it. Once you release a console with a media type you cannot change or downgrade that its impossible unless you recall every console and then redistribute which would cost millions. On the xb1 side of this the kinect is a add on. it is not integral and i have never ever even taken mine out of the box. everything works you wont need to recall and many ppl do not care about this type of interactivity, or let alone even use it do to its limitations, making a choice like this though changes the game, if you look at the bigger picture. This is actually a smart buisness choice. The xb1 will now be in the price range of more customers, they will not take a hit in terms of losses like what you are saying they should. Then their is the fact that they have already spent millions in the VR side of things. VR out classes the Kinect in a number of ways and while using the kinect tech they have an already clear lead in this department. why keep bundling it in when their future is not the kinect but vr with kinect tech built in. Think of kinect as beta vr at our expense. Call it Kinect VR3 calling it now. But there is no future for Kinect 2. Proven by the public backlash and the limited support with devs and the fact that it is not a game changer in any real way. Blueray has a clear advantage over dvd we all know that. that would have been a stupid mistake and a bad buisness descision this was not that.

Bluray wasn't integral to the PS3 or gaming in general.. People were asking Sony to make a SKU with a Bluray drive and a cheaper SKU with a DVD drive.. It would have worked just fine especially from a hardware company like Sony.... The only difference would be that if Sony didn't "force" a movie format on PS fans by using the PS3 as a Trojan horse for Bluray, their format would have lost to HD-DVD or neither format would have caught a foothold over DVD to begin with.. Bluray certainly wasn't needed for games since the Xbox 360 used DVD for games just fine and still uses DVDs for games til this day.. And this is not to mention that PS3 games can be downloaded as well.. So Bluray was about as essential to the PS3 as the Kinect is for the XB1 in the sense that the parent companies involved had a vision that heavily involved both pieces of hardware.. Unfortunately, that extra hardware adds to costs and results in higher prices.. Sony decided to stick it out (probably because they REALLY needed Bluray to succeed for the sake of their company) but while Kinect is a key part of Microsoft's ecosystem, they can still make due with it being an add-on for their services like Skype and Cortana.. Bottom line: The PS3 at the same price as a 360 was a great value because you got Bluray for free.. And the Xbox One would have been a great value at the same price as the PS4 since you'd get Kinect for free.. Just like last Gen, it would have took a couple of years but price parity would have been reached eventually.. But alas, Microsoft caved to the pressure and is gonna sell a potentially weaker box for the same price as the stronger PS4 while completely neutering Kinect 2.0 in the process.. *EDIT* and just to clarify, PS3 games could have easily been made on DVDs instead of Blurays.. As a matter of fact, developers were asking for exactly that but Sony mandated that all games be made on Bluray just to make sure the format was being used.. So YES, games could have been made on DVDs (obviously since 360 games are DVD) and Sony could have made a cheaper SKU with a DVD drive for the same price as a 360 and had the "optional" higher priced SKU with a Bluray drive that still plays DVDs.. Choice is good right?.. More sales potential is good right?.. Funny how that doesn't sound like good news when Sony was faced with that obvious option to make more sales but it sounds awesome for Microsoft to do it with the Kinect.. #hypocrisy

With your claims of the x1 not being capable of 1080p 60fps is also halarious. Its more than capable. Its based in the architechture. There is a difference of devs saying they cant and saying the couldnt. One thing you need to consider. This is all about money. Thats all this buisness is about. There is no money in spending months extra trying to get the xbox to 1080p fps. Devs have been working with the PS4 much longer. the architechture is very different. Getting these system to this fase isnt as easy as all the complaining children that dont even know what 1080p means, or that your eye is physically unable to view frames at that speed. This argument is for fanboys. It doesnt matter and many actually skilled devs like CDproectred, cryteck, ubisoft, dice, etc have said this argument is completely invalid and as with the previous generation the xb1 will .games will get to this stage. without sacraficing graphics. we are talking about the beginning of these consoles. The difference of these consoles are marginal as it was last generation. Great games for both consoles will continue to be made.

I agree that the entire "1080p vs 720p" argument is overblown.. What I DON'T think is overblown is somebody walking into Walmart, sees a $399 PS4 that plays games at 1080p and a $399 Xbox One that plays games at 720p, then making the obvious choice to buy the more powerful PS4 since they cost the same money anyway.. Even if a person has no idea what 1080p is, they know its more than 720p and both consoles cost the same so they're buying the one that does 1080p.. At least if you throw Kinect in the mix, there's an added factor for this consumer to consider.. "hmmm, well the PS4 does 1080p but looking at the games, they basically look kind of the same. and the Xbox One comes with that Kinect camera for free that does all that cool voice command and motion tracking stuff.. I'll take the Xbox One".. See, that's an entirely different conversation and I think its worth taking this initial beating so that you can provide that kind of added value in the long term.. Im hoping that the Xbox One will consistently be able to do 1080p from here on out, maybe when DirectX12 is released and/or devs get another year or so under their belt with the hardware, but this 720p or 900p crap isn't going to cut it if the PS4 is doing 1080p for the same price and we dont have Kinect as a differentiator anymore .. That's just simple logic

Simple logic? First the average consumer doesn't even know. This isn't on either box. It doesn't say on Xbox 1 we can only do 720p. Lol what's funny is xbox 360 and ps3 games in the beginning were only 720 haha and guess what? That changed and no one was the wiser. All you whinny little over empowered by the internet children, make all this a much bigger deal than it is. And if you had any idea of how tech and tools develop then you'd know that this is normal, this is custom build architecture for Microsoft, and it will take time for Microsoft and its devs to really start kicking out some nice stuff. Maybe you should look up the info about sonys lie about ps4 and 1080p. The hype machine. It's obvious by your responses, you're using hot topic and no actual knowledge of any kind of programming for your responses. In no way. Absolutely none. Could you ever sit there and continue to throw claims that xb1 is unable to accomplish 1080p 60fps. When the architecture was not only 100% designed for it but was also designed with 4k in mind as well. What is damn funny is i just finished explaining that some of the most talented devs have confirmed soon 1080p 60fps will be 100% across the board. About Kinect. You again fail to see that more than half the world couldn't even use it. It's not design for oddly shaped rooms small offices or bed rooms. The Kinect is completely an ad on. Devs saw the value in blue ray. You can say the same about n64 cartridges vs cd your argument has absolutely no merit. The ps3 was designed in every way with bluray in mind. It was at the for front of a multi tiered attack in a new media direction. Having DVD with the larger content on 360 was an issue and games like metal gear never game to Xbox because of it. Kinect is an Xbox vision has nothing to do with PC, nothing to do with windows, surface, windows phone. Bluray was important to just about every video facet of Sony. Kinect is a gimmick. Glad you like it. But its not that cool dancing in front of your tv, pretty stupid and lazy talking to your tv instead of pressing a button. The Kinect is not the future of gaming. Bluray is the next step for physical game distribution hmm yup guess what it's on Xbox one. Kinect was dead on Xbox 360 and they tried to keep it going but with out content it's as useless as having two remotes to the same tv.

Lol, the saddest part about your rants is that you don't seem to realize that I totally agree with your base arguments.. I agree that "resolutiongate" is overblown by fanboys.. I agree that the Xbox One will perform better over time and bring 1080p/60fps games on a more consistent basis.. I agree that this is just an issue in which the Xbox One is just the more difficult console to develop for and will eventually even out with the PS4 in terms of overall performance.. But c'mon man, do you live under a rock?.. EVERY TIME A NEW GAME IS RELEASED there are a DOZENS of headlines talking about how the PS4 version is running at a higher resolution and/or higher framtate.. This information doesn't need to be on the side of the box, it's shoved into the faces of anyone who is REMOTELY interested in buying one of these consoles.. You ever heard of "word of mouth"?.. It's POWERFUL.. like it or not, the general public knows that the PS4 runs games better than the Xbox One and it is going to take a loooooong time before that perception is changed (and that's only after EVERY NEW GAME ANNOUNCED is running equally on both systems on a consistent basis).. So right now, TODAY, Microsoft is asking people to buy a "weaker" console for the same price as the more powerful competition without even having the Kinect (a very impressive peice of tech) in the box to sweeten the deal.. That's the point I'm making and it is a very obvious point.. Keeping the Kinect in the box and still dropping the price would be costly but you immediately make Kinect something that people stop complaining about and start enjoying since they are now getting it for free.. Or at least wait until developers are putting out games that run equally on both systems so that this perceived power difference will finally go away before you unbundle Kinect.. But presently, they have positioned themselves as the "weaker version of the PS4 for the same price".. If a consumer has no preference and the price is the same, he buys the more powerful (or the perceived more powerful) product every time.. Without Kinect in the box, that's the situation we're faced with.. And again, no need to rant on and on about things we agree on. I own a Xbox One, I love it, I have no intention on buying a PS4, and I hope Microsoft catches up to Sony in sales.. I just think they may have employed this strategy a bit too soon.. Keeping Kinect in the box @ $399 is perfect.

And lol, at Bluray being the future.. Dude, nobody wanted Bluray just like "nobody wants Kinect".. Especially when it drove the price of the PS3 up by $200 over the competition.. Everyone was doing just fine with DVDs and Bluray was just Sony's baby that they forced down the throats of gamers.. What was the result for gaming?.. A higher price tag for the PS3, mandatory install times for nearly every multiplatform game while there were no install times for the 360 versions, and lol Metal Gear Solid 4?!?. I loved that game but it not coming to 360 had NOTHING to do with Bluray.. Hell, you had to wait 10 minutes for the game to install the next chapter.. I could have gotten up off the couch and changed a disc by then. If you thought watching Old Snake smoke a cigarette for 10 minutes in between installs was more convenient thanks to Bluray versus just changing a disc with DVD, then you're the one that's "lazy". At least the Kinect 2.0 has direct gaming applications and is insanely nice for voice navigation while Bluray was simply a movie format, nothing more, nothing less.. A format that's already dying since physical media is going away.. When was the last time you bought a music CD?.. When was the last time you bought a paperback copy of a book?.. Everyone downloads now and digital movies are going to make Sony's Bluray disc irrelevant sooner rather than later.. So what was this big media impact you speak of?.. Bluray didn't do anything for gaming and isn't even needed for HD movies.. If you think Kinect is worthless, I can't understand why you support a brain dead decision to include Bluray in every PS3.. I was a HUGE Sony fan and I can tell you that Sony screwed us (the gamers) with that crap. And finally, you don't see how Kinect fits into Microsoft's ecosystem?.. Ever heard of Cortana?!. Do you notice that every cable company is pushing voice search now?. You don't think Apple is going to bring Siri to AppleTV?.. In the war for the living room, Kinect is HUGE.. Or at least is might be.. Now that's it's an afterthought add-on, who knows..

Awesome, this will place the Xbox One at a lower price point than the PS4 in Canada.  The PS4 is currently $459 up here.

Good about Games for Gold. All they need to do now is decouple Elder Scrolls Online or make the sub free I you do have gold

Good move, i think the max game and halo spartan assault will be the first two free games for gold for xbone. 

Glad they are undoing everything don mattricks did to destory the xbox brand.  Kinect should fo always been a choice and apps should not be behind a paywall, especially since your competitor doesnt require that and also had a cheaper console. 

well they didn't have to remove it. but then who is going to pay for the 100 dollars if they hope to price match sony. don't kid yourself if you think this isn't a flat out recognition sony is kicking their ass in sales.

No disrespect but I simply dont understand that logic.. You'd buy a Xbox One without Kinect for $399 but you'd absolutely refuse to buy an Xbox One WITH Kinect for $399?.. I mean, wow.. At that point, the Kinect is FREE and you still wouldn't buy it because you simply didnt want to see it in the box?.... if you don't like it, unplug it and throw it in the trash but I don't see how you can justify that mentality.. How about an even better example: Right NOW you can get an Xbox One with Kinect and Titanfall for $449.. That's completely out of the question for you but you wouldn't mind buying a $399 Xbox One without Kinect and then spend $60 on a game (potentially, Titanfall) for $459?.. Do you mean to tell me that you hate Kinect so much that you'd pay Microsoft an extra $10 so you don't even have to open the box and see it?.. Lol, doesn't make any sense at all

you're buying an xbox that just happened to come with kinect. if you're into the platform games, apps and ecosystem (and you wait until win8 apps are ported to it and see the store take off), then just grab the kinect, and give it to your dog.

I agree it isn't worth 100 bucks but it isn't worth not getting an xbox if it is basically free to you.

there are times where you have to accept that your vision didn't play out like you thought it would. MSFT is at such crossroad. Kinect will still be popular but let's face it: the novelty factor went away just as it did for the wii. I certanly don't think 100 bucks is worth what it gives in return. I'd have settle for the voice commands and that would have been easier to do with a 5 dollar mic accessory included.

 

Many casuals like myself will still see the value for entertainment and voice commands. If/when a developer creates a new must have game for kinect, the gamers will then embrace it. Nice to have choices.

don't you love it how MSFT went from hubris and pompous to humbled and eager to listen in less than a year. Kudos to MSFT for finally listenting. But MSFT dug itself a big hole, can it climb out? Yes they have been extremelly humbled yet one wonders if they will go back to their old ways should they ever retain dominance.

In many ways, success is like alcohol for MSFT. if they have too much of it, they act like arrogant drunks.

I find it to be a great move for Microsoft. I have the one. Don't play it much these days. Hail Space Engineers! I never took the Kinect out of the box. I enjoy the console though. Limited games is my main issue. And to be expected. News like this. Makes me laugh. All the things Sony fans aggressively attack about Xbox are being fixed. DRM? Nope. Silver media usage? Yup. Blue ray? Yup. Better xblive experience? Yup. Price drop? Yup removed Kinect? Yep. Shall I continue? Sony may be doing well. Great job btw. But this is the fastest selling Xbox yet. So kudos. And Microsoft has proven they will evolve with gamers. May take a few knocks on the head. But their not making a basic game console n64=ps4. Their evolving gaming and media. Making changes that attempt to fit us all. Not just the hardcore. In the end I am pretty surprised by this news, well so soon at least. Things will get interesting now indeed. Game on. Oh and go to steam and try space engineers. Your life depends on it.. Haha

Way to go, Microsoft. Though as much as I like some of this stuff, they've now potentially lost my money for a bit. I was looking at picking up 2-3 games this month, but after hearing that we'll have "surprise" discounts in June, I HAVE to wait. On top of that, I'll have Watch Dogs by then, which might mean I'll pass on getting ANY games.

 

Such is the risk of pre-announcing deals.

Hopefully Microsoft will still do things to encourage devs to code for Kinect. I suppose on the bright side this means:
1. If my box breaks I don't have to re-buy the Kinect.
2. They might be paving the way for a v3 Kinect that will be released as an add on a la Xbox 360?

Removing the HDMI in and lowering the whole thing to $399 seems a lot more effective and doesn't alienate Kinect... Oh well

Microsoft should have never put those services you pay for separately anyway behind a pay wall so I see this as a good move. XBOXO is suppose to be the entertainment hub and not ad a premium on services I already pay for.  At least that isn't how I use my XBO. The Kinects move might sell a few more consoles but until MS gets games other than the hoards of war titles its currently saturated with, it'll be dropping the price just to pay for advertising.  It needs whimsical games and a lot of them. Games like Knack on PS4 would be a great start.

People who buy an Xbox one now without Kinect and say they'll buy it later are dumb the Kinect alone will cost around 120.

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