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50

'What I learned about Windows Phone 7 from Android'

Last week, I wrote about my thoughts on Android compared to Windows Phone 7 and why I thought Android, though extremely popular, ultimately has some fundamental architecture issues.

Today, Shawn Wildermuth, who has written six books on .NET and is heavily involved with the Microsoft ecosystem (so yeah, bias), discusses his thoughts on Android. He's uses a Motorola Droid on Verizon as his daily driver and just updated to OS 2.2 aka 'Froyo'.

One of his choice quotes would be 

...But there is an intrinsic problem here. I had to use some spelunking to find out what background processes were killing my performance. This is a big bucket of FAIL.

Phones aren't for geeks, they are for regular people like my mother and my sister. The fact that most Android users learn to use a task management app means there is something wrong.

We couldn't agree more and while we hope Windows Phone 7 v1.0 moves beyond the current feature-incomplete status sooner than later, we're quite happy with this new direction and focus on consumers.

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Comments

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says:

It strikes me how the exact same people, who have been mocking the iPhone for years, because of it's lack of basic functionality, now are the ones who defend WP7.

Android users don't need task managers. In fact, it is absolutely recommended that Android users let the OS handle the running applications, because it does so perfectly.
Task managers only help if something locks up, which (not) surprisingly happens less often on Android than on the iPhone.

says:

Seeing how the people I respected in the Windows Mobile community now have become just like the iPhone fanboys of 2007-2009 really makes me sad.

You noticed that too huh?

Still doesn't address the crux of his complaint: he had a program running in the background that was slowing down the OS due to incompatibility with Froyo. In order to "fix" his problem he had to do some mucking around and investigative work--something which he suggests most people shouldn't have to do.

Address that and then we can talk.

You're also confusing things as some of us are *not* against multitasking, we just want it done in a smart way e.g. WebOS. Personally, I really wish WP7 has the WebOS model, but for now I'll take what I can.

Fact is, despite all of WinMo's strengths it completely and utterly failed in the market (

says:

^Yes, this is a good response.

People said the same thing about WM, that the OS was smart enough to close programs as memory became scarce. The problem is, there are bound to be variables as each handset maker has their own overlay, their own background tasks, their own background programs running, etc. How does the OS know how much memory is needed for HTC Sense to run SMOOTHLY? There is no one-size-fits-all and the same is true with Android.

I've been using WM (AT&T Pure/Touch Diamond2) since last year. I think at this point what I want most in a phone is that it operates on a fast level. I hate having to wait when switching between screens. I'm willing to give up multitasking until it is done properly.

says:

Instead of pointing out all the logical errors in your post, let me just make a suggestion:

Why not focus on the good things in WP7, instead of writing useless blog posts like this one?

Seriously, this blog entry is completely wrong and you sounds like an iPhone fanboy post from 2008.

Do you really need that?

I don't think defending WP7's shortcomings and spreading FUD about the competition helps anyone.

If you need to write something that makes you feel better, write about the good things in WP7, like the awesome 'Metro' design.

And let Microsoft know that restrictions suck, because in the long run, when they remove them, that will make you feel a lot better as well.

Oh, maybe one thing: Just because multitasking didn't prevent WM from failing doesn't mean it's not necessary. It is.

In a world where everyone has a good UI, things like multitasking make the difference.

Also, simple does not mean easy to use. A UI can be very simple, but restrictions like the lack of multitasking or file system access worsen its ease of use, because the user gets annoyed when there is something basic he can't do.

There are times when Android is a lot easier to use, because there are no restrictions, for example when you want to put content onto the device (content that is not supported by the desktop client, Zune/iTunes) or from the device to a PC (iOS doesn't allow that at all - WP7 will be similar).

If you think WP7 will have to compete with the iPhone, you're wrong. One phone alone can not reach a high share of a market that big, the iPhone's share is already declining. Android is in the act of overtaking the smartphone market and it's much harder to beat than the iPhone.

I'm not loyal to any product or company. I buy a new phone at least three times a year and I always buy what I think is the best thing on the market at that time.

If you want to make people like me buy a WP7 phone (what a stupid name), then tell me about the good things.

Posts that sound like written by an iPhone fanboy only turn me off. I don't want to hear lame excuses.

I've used the iPhone and the experience was hardly better than with WM - in fact, the lack of multitasking and file system access made me switch back to WM before I finally bought an Android phone.

>Why not focus on the good things in WP7, instead of writing useless blog posts like this one?

We write *plenty* of posts detailing new software, games in development, features of the UI, Zune and Xbox integration, etc. all showing the power of WP7. Evidently, you choose to ignore them.

>Seriously, this blog entry is completely wrong and you sounds like an iPhone fanboy post from 2008.

Well, that's your opinion, but OK.

>I don't think defending WP7's shortcomings and spreading FUD about the competition helps anyone.

I disagree. Completely. For one, it's not FUD to discuss a user's experience, whether my own or another developer's, with another mobile OS. Second, it's very useful to discuss these things on our site since Android *is* the competition.

Look, clearly you, 'drphysx', *really* like Android and don't like the limitations on WP7. Fair enough. I'm not here to convince you otherwise, nor am I writing articles geared towards just your perspective.

You keep making this your personal perspective = consumer's wants and that's just not the case. For all the initial draw backs on WP7 (e.g. multitasking, copy/paste), the Zune and Xbox integration, in my opinion, will overshadow those.

Android severely lacks a good music-store and management option and while the hardware/OS can handle robust gaming graphics (well, assuming HTC doesn't limit it to 30FPS like on the EVO), gaming on Android is pretty weak, especially compared to what XBLA will offer.

>Posts that sound like written by an iPhone fanboy only turn me off. I don't want to hear lame excuses.

Fair enough, but honestly you're but one person on this site and I'm not here to cater to your every whim. I write *plenty* of pro-WP7 posts and criticize when necessary--but shocker, yes on a Windows Mobile site I more often than not will take the side of Microsoft against the competition. There are a ton of other sites who will endlessly (and often needlessly) bash MS.

And I will continue to share my Android experiences on this site as I see fit. I use the EVO as my daily driver and consider it much better than Windows Mobile, so I hardly hate Android. But it's not perfect either and by showing where it is weak compared to WP7, well, I think that's valuable. You're free to disagree.

says:

Yes, I do like Android. But I will be the first one to switch when something better comes along.

Especially when it's from Microsoft, because I use almost all of their products and services.

A phone that integrates well with those would be awesome, but not if it lacks multitasking or a simple way to synchronize content (and that means any!!! files, not only those supported by the Zune client software).

My personal perspective = consumer's wants?
No, it's the other way round, because I AM a consumer.

And when you claim Zune/XBox will make up for the lack of other basic functionality, how is that any different?

You're speculating. Did I say WP7 will fail because it lacks multitasking? I don't think so.

I don't know whether it will succeed or not, but what I DEFINITELY do know is that restrictions like the lack of multitasking or file system access severely worsen the user experience for EVERYONE, not just power users.

Also, I am not ignoring your posts about the good things in WP7. Not at all.
What I want you to do is stick to those posts. If you want to express your excitement for WP7, this is how you do it.
NOT by writing down excuses for the shortcomings.

says:

I'm with drphysx. People tend to approach Android like Windows and they believe:
"programs running in background = less resources... and that's bad!"
but Android is based on Linux and that mentality doesn't apply. It is true that sometimes an Android app needs to be task-killed (due to poor programming on the developer's part) - but that's under rare circumstances.

says:

I just find it interesting that Malatesta and Wildermuth are Windows Mobile/Windows Phone activists but both use Android as a daily driver :-)

starblade876 says:

Which is why neither of them should be accused of being fanboys or apologists, like the many Apple ones out there. They recognize that WP7 isn't perfect, but it has its benefits over the others. Likewise, they recognize the benefits of Android, but they also see its faults. Seemingly unlike drphysx, they don't propose that WP7 is going to be perfect for everyone; merely that this is for this type of person while that is for that kind of person. It's fine if people want to jump ship to Android, but they should at least be made aware of the problems/quirks that they might run into as well as the benefits they'll be leaving behind.

says:

As far as I got it, it's possible to do some crippled multitasking with WP7 as well, so it's also possible to slow down the system and drain battery with poorly programmed apps.

I don't know if there'll be any "this app drains your battery" info in WP7, but in Android, there is (though a little hidden in the settings...). "Regular people" should look there and uninstall apps that use too much battery. Task managers usually only make things worse.

Admittedly, Android apps could be more transparent (e.g. I still don't know when and why Seesmic checks for new messages) and there seem to be some lacks in the system (e.g. paused media sometimes drains the battery), but that's no fundamental flaw (it can be fixed), and nobody knows if WP7 will be much better.

kraski says:

As has already been stated, in Android, you're supposed to let the OS sort out running tasks or you REALLY muck up how Android runs. Why do I suspect that Mr Wildermuth already played with the task manager before he went searching for "background processes" to terminate? If you're going to bring experience from one phone OS to another, you need to know what to bring & what to leave home.

Does Mr Wildermuth's quote mean that, if I move from WM 6.5 to WP7 that part of the experience I can leave behind is frequent use of the task manager? Microsoft is going to change?

says:

WP7 can't multitask, you won't need a task manager.

Of course there's nothing good about that. I had a terrible experience with the iPhone because of its lack of multitasking and an accessible, shared storage.

Android shows how it's done right. The multitasking works smoothly and getting any content onto the phone is as simple as a drag&drop, the system does everything automatically (indexing the files).
On WP7, like on the iPhone, there's no common way of aquiring the content for different apps and one app can't read the content of the other, e.g. multiple ebook readers will all bring their own method for getting the books onto the phone and one can't access the books of the other.


Those limitations seriously degrade the user experience.

says:

Oh and of course, despite that it can multitask, you don't need a task manager on Android, either.

Only bad software needs restrictions in order to run properly. Android just works without them.

Too bad Microsoft copied the wrong system.

>Oh and of course, despite that it can multitask, you don't need a task manager on Android, either.

Then why is the market flooded with them? What does that say to the new consumer who is browsing the market? Why in every Android forum are there back and forths on the topic?

If it was so clear cut as you say, some of the top apps in the Android market wouldn't be Task Managers, they'd be an anachrinism and everyone would agree.

Seeing as that is not the case, clearly *something* is missing from the model. We had the same debate with WM, didn't we? Windows Mobile too does not need a task manager, yet what was the biggest complaint? People wanting to close apps, stop the slow downs and not have to worry about it.

Android did not solve this problem.

says:

Because users are stupid, that's why. Google should ban task managers, so that people don't mess up and then blame Android (and then write wrong articles on blogs like this one).

If something slows things dows and kills the battery on Android, it's the use of task managers.

Obviously, apps that run in the background don't have a measurable impact on performance or battery life as long as they're running idle.
If they have to do something, like playing music or downloading a file, the user clearly wants that and knows what's going on.

When they're killed by a task manager and need to restart, they need several times more processing time than if they just continue to run. That's when things get laggy.

And yes, Android DID solve the problems that were common with WM. It's like the power of WM plus the 'just works' of the iPhone.

Unfortunately, some people don't know what to do with the power. If there's a restriction that I agree with, it's banning task managers.

>Because users are stupid, that's why.

That's a pretty condescending attitude and I think a little to convenient. That actually sounds like an Apple claim, not one from an Android user.

Fact is, coding errors happens all the time in the Android market--the Facebook app which was draining people's battery is a prime example. The reason for this is two fold:

The code for handling power is not managed
There is no one checking/approving the code before mass release

In WP7, the code for power *is* managed, meaning developers cannot screw it up on the first place as they never touch it (it also makes their life easier). The other part is addressed by Microsoft running the code through a checker before being released to make sure it's OK.

The Android Marketplace while impressive in some areas (e.g. automatic refunds, ease of use), is like the Wild West in others, potentially allowing malware to get through, or just poorly written apps.

This bothers me a little. While I really hope MS is not as draconian as Apple, I hope they are more diligent than the Android Marketplace--I'm looking for somewhere in between both models.

says:

Well, Microsoft is approving apps, so that issue is solved.

By the way, I have NO problem with 'censoring' an app market, as long as sideloading is possible.

Companies can enforce whatever policies they like on their own markzts, but they must not dictate what the user can or can't put onto his device.

I agree that more control over the Android market would be a good thing, but only because Android users are allowed to install apps from other sources. That way, apps that cause harm (like task managers ;-) could be kept out of the market, while users can still decide for themselves.

I do not agree with the Apple&Microsoft model of censoring and disallowing other distribution channels for apps.

>WP7 can't multitask, you won't need a task manager.

For 3rd party apps only; core OS components e.g. email, music, etc. do multi-task.

For 3rd parties, they can use push-notifications to update the app when a new event happens.

These are important distinctions.

Having my EVO for awhile now, I can't say I'm completely thrilled with the Android model. Force closes, incompatibility issues, running out of memory and the headache for developers of making apps for different versions of the OS and different hardware seems troubling.

says:

You can try as much as you like, but you can't excuse the ridiculous restrictions.

As much as I like the UI, after the terrible experience I had with the iPhone, I'm not going to buy another OS that lacks basic functionality like multitasking orshared, accessible storage.

And I'm not going to buy the 'multitasking is bad' myth. It's a lie that iPhone fanboys told themselves, in order to feel better about their lacking device.

Android works perfectly and it's an awesome example of how things are done right. Let the OS handle the multitasking, make copying content to the device as easy as pie, without nonsensical restrictions etc.

The only thing Google should do is BAN task managers, in order to prevent people from messing up and blaming Android for their own stupidity.

>You can try as much as you like, but you can't excuse the ridiculous restrictions.

As previously mentioned, I would prefer the OS to multitask than for it not to, but I understand that building a new OS from the ground up is not easy either--so I give MS some wiggle room here.

I personally think MS will open up the OS to MT is the future, but for now, they are setting the framework. But, as previously mentioned, love it or hate it, the iPhone did show that an OS doesn't have to MT to be successful--that's an important lesson.

>Android works perfectly and it's an awesome example of how things are done right.

Oh come on, the OS does not work perfectly and no OS does.

That's not a slam against Android either. Otherwise why do they keep releasing new versions so rapidly? The fact that I could not copy/paste in Gmail till version 2.2 was just...*weird*. You'd expect Gmail to be extremely powerful on an Android device yet it was clearly lacking (HTC filled in the gap with their email client, but I'm not sure having 2 overlapping email clients on the same device is a great idea).

Yeah, I know WP7 doesn't copy paste either, but I expect it will well before the equivalent of v2.2.

As far as not going with WP7 because of its limitations in v1.0, that's perfectly legit. We're not trying to convince anyone that a v1.0 OS is perfect for everyone, especially so-called 'power users'. But Android took a good year, year and a half before it matured. It's only in early 2010 did it hit its stride. That's important to remember too.

says:

There's one difference and that's what i have a problem with.

Android's initial shortcomings were technical things that were adreesed over time.

Aome of WP7's shortcomings, like the lack of copy&paste, are like that, too, and I know building an OS isn't an easy thing so I'm okay with that!

However, other shortcomings of WP7 are similar to the restrictions that Apple enforces on the iPhone and those will most likely NOT be removed ever.

This includes restricting access to the file system or sideloading of applications. I don't know whether you've ever used an iPhone for some time, but I had a TERRIBLE experience with it, because of moments when I couldn't sync stuff from or to a PC because it doesn't work as USB storage or for example when I couldn't save a pdf from the web to read it later etc.

>Does Mr Wildermuth's quote mean that, if I move from WM 6.5 to WP7 that part of the experience I can leave behind is frequent use of the task manager? Microsoft is going to change?

Well, as of now, WP7 doesn't have multitasking for 3rd party apps, so why would you need a Task manager? This may change later, like the iOS 4, but for now that's the model.

Having used Android for 2 months right now, there's quite a bit to like and quite a bit to not like. Managing tasks, apps slowing down the OS, things checking in the background, the battery drains--all real issues.

Point is: Android is not a perfect OS either and perhaps *not* the model to base a new OS off of.

says:

Having used Android for a few months now, I don't believe you.

Multitasking doesn't do anything bad. The battery life is way better than the iPhone's and I'm experiencing considerably less lag or freezes than with the iPhone.
If multitasking is supposed to slow things dows and kill the battery, why is that?

Simple answer, it's a myth, made up by iPhone fanboys and now repeated by WP7 fanboys.

Nonsense.

One of the biggest gripes about the EVO was/is battery life. Read over at Android Central in the forums, which is chalk full of issues and complaints.

Your use of the term "fanboys" is boarderline trolling. If you don't like my opinions, fine, but throwing out that term demonstrates a lack of tact and form when discussing these issues.

Or should I just label you and Android fanboy trolling a WM site?

I don't think that'd be fair.

says:

If you use 4G that is, which doesn't have anything to do with multitasking.

Use a device similar to the iPhone, like a Nexus One, and you get the same or better battery life and less freezes and lag - despite that the iPhone doesn't multitask and Android does.

And when you behave EXACTLY like the iPhone fanboys of 2007-2009, trying to find ridiculous excuses fir the lack of basic functuonality, I'm sorry but I call you a fanboy just like them.

To me, a fanboy is someone who spends his time defending 'his' product's shortcomings with myths like 'multitasking is bad', so that he can feel better about it.

That's exactly what your article does.

starblade876 says:

A fanboy is someone who believes his thing is perfect and degrades people for not liking his thing and/or for liking something else. We recognize WP7's shortcomings, but we also see the potential it has to overcome those and the reasoning behind having them for now.

Android is not perfect. If it were, it wouldn't need updates and EVERYONE would be able to use it without problems (even 'idiots').

NO ONE IS SAID "MULTITASKING IS BAD" HERE. Read it, comprehend it, and retain it. Multitasking (as with C&P) can be done wrong. It's not an excuse, it's a truth. And, honestly, it sounds like Android did it wrong. webOS has the best implementation of multitasking that I've seen and I agree with Malatesta and hope that WP7 follows suit.

says:

Since you asked why it would slow down and use battery with multitasking I figured I would answer. It seems to make sense to me that if you have a program running or saved in the background it will take memory and CPU, both of which take power to run (CPU a lot). Running slower only really makes sense to me if you get to the edge of your memory limit and are intruding on what the OS needs to run.

I'm not saying multitasking is bad, but you can't do much on a phone without using more battery...

says:

Actually, the real culprit in battery life/multi-tasking isn't how many apps are running in the background (in Android, at least). The problem is apps that feel the need to constantly use the data connection, regularly updating.

Things like weather widgets, news feeds, etc are an example of those things that kill the battery if they're configured to update on a frequent basis. Another thing that will cause memory issues is not closing things properly. After opening a database for reading, if the dev doesn't close it it can leak causing a memory drain.

I must say, this thread is quite entertaining! :-)

kraski says:

WP7 may not have multitasking, but, unless every entry to the app market is going to get months of testing before it's allowed into the Market, there's no guarantee that something won't slip thru that will cause an issue. There's still a need for an alternative way to shut down an app. Until I see otherwise, I can't expect apps to all behave nicely, just because it's WP7.

You say that Android doesn't have good power management because an app didn't behave. I hope you're not saying that's never happened with WM, because my own personal experience has been otherwise. Microsoft, so far, hasn't been any more perfect than anyone else. Why would I expect that to change? Many of the positive reports for WP7 are at best 2nd hand. The rest are based on test versions of WP7 that may or may not be like the final production version. So, I can't have [B]any[/B] expectations till the real thing comes out.

I'll agree with you that Android is imperfect. But so are iOS, WM, WebOS, BB OS & Symbian (I'm leaving out the smaller stuff like several linux for phone distros). Which of the others [B]would[/B] you suggest as the model for an OS? Until someone or something perfect creates an OS, it's highly unlikely we'll ever see the perfect OS, no matter what it's based on.

>WP7 may not have multitasking, but, unless every entry to the app market is going to get months of testing before it's allowed into the Market, there's no guarantee that something won't slip thru that will cause an issue.

Actually, it pretty much is guaranteed but we'll certainly wait on that to confirm.

The only reason I feel confident in saying that is, simply put, developers just don't have access to the potentially "dangerous" stuff in the program--Microsoft has done it all for them. The only thing developers have to work on is the UI, graphics and the actual function of the app--memory, CPU, etc. is already written for them. This is what "managed code" means.

That's a win for developers and why we've talked about writing apps on WP7 vs Android/Apple here--they have to worry about a lot less than on other platforms, even the iPhone.

For consumers, they presumably won't have to worry about what version of the OS they are on, what device they have, resolution, etc.

>You say that Android doesn't have good power management because an app didn't behave. I hope you're not saying that's never happened with WM, because my own personal experience has been otherwise

Oh, it's happened with WM plenty of times. Ideally though, it wasn't supposed to happen. But the manager takes care of memory, not CPU cycles and it's the latter that *can* go wrong and there doesn't seem to be a good metric for discovering that e.g. maybe the app is supposed to get 100% of the CPU all the time.

says:

Saying that you shouldn't need a taskmanager on android and that the OS can do a better job of managing things is pretty daft I say. As has been seen, and even fans of the OS can't really deny it, things go wrong, some apps can kill your battery, other times you have no clue when a app will just get killed because the system thinks it's time to.

Yeah yeah, when the phone slows down I'll just hope that the tech gods help me out and that the OS will kill that app, but that never works does it?

Hey, I get that you like the OS and that pointing out it's shortcomings probably hurts, but facts are facts, poor battery life is one of those facts. Comparing WP7 to the iPhone because MS has kept it closed off to 3rd parties is fine, that's the case at this point, the difference here is how long do you think it'll be before they open it up? I'd much rather MS work out the APIs and open them up little by little than just let the flood gates go and we get a redux of WM6.x where anyone could do anything and we get piss poor apps and systems that slow to a crawl.

I also don't want to have to charge my phone once or every other day, it's a damn "mobile" device, don't shakle me to a damn power outlet because in the race to become "smart" we lost the ability to be free.

says:

I don't think they'll open it up amd that makes me sad.

And no, multitasking doesn't hurt battery life. The iPhone doesn'get better battery life than Android phones, so obviously this ia a myth (or iOS is really bad)

says:

iOS is just really bad. And why wouldn't they open it up over time to 3rd parties? I don't get the resoning to this one. It's best to start with what works instead of giving everyone access to unfinished, untested, unrefined APIs and have the whole platform go down the shitter don't you think?

says:

Oh, they will open up the multitasking in some way.

But there are other, even worse, iPhone-like restrictions that are unlikely to be removed ever, like the lack of file system access.
(and if you ask youself why this is important to normal users, try an iPhone - it's a complete mess, because every app has to bring its own method of getting content onto the phone and one can't read the files of the other etc. etc.)

says:

Oh and sory for the strong words, but I just can't hear the nonsense anymore. And I'm really saddened that people from the former WM community write stuff than could come from an iPhone fanboy from 2008 - except this time it's about WP7.

says:

Great comments all. Thanks for being part of this conversation. I don't suggest that I am without bias, but I hope its a somewhat fair view of the ecosystem. While I laud Google for it's 'no rules' approach, I like WP7's middleground between the draconian Apple approach and the love-fest-free-for-all Android approach (AppStore and OS). Remember that Apple's approach isn't multi-tasking as such but allowing some tasks to be in a limited set of multi-tasking pipelines for common scenarios.

As for the No Task Manager discussion (e.g. let Android handle it). The fact is that it doesn't handle it well. It can kill processes that have high memory pressure, but it seems to ignore high CPU pressure. Task switching seems to suffer based on a variety of apps running the in the background and battery life can be really hurt by a background task polling too often. All things typical users will just blame on the phone, not on the app.

>While I laud Google for it's 'no rules' approach, I like WP7's middleground between the draconian Apple approach and the love-fest-free-for-all Android approach (AppStore and OS).

Thanks Shawn for posting.

This is my position too. I'm not a fan of Apple's ways, but I am looking for a middle ground between Android and Apple. While WP7 is not perfect in balancing those extremes yet, it comes close. And I *think* that's Microsoft's approach too.

The notion of having Apple, Google and Microsoft all offering their own take on a mobile OS, all with unique strengths, features and something for everyone I find very appealing. No need for a homogeneous, one-size fits all approach.

says:

I shed a tear every time I read a blog or forum post touting the benefits of dumbing down technology... especially when it's at the expense of functionality. It's pretty sad.

If you want a dumb phone, get a dumb phone -- or a sudo-smart phone like the iPhone but there will always be a crowd that is willing to delve in to the technology they purchase.

Once upon a time, Windows Mobile phones were the choice for those who want the power of a functional operating system on their phone. Microsoft has decided to follow Apple and dumb down their phone OS, lock it down, and pretty much take the control out of their consumers' hands.

Say what you will about Windows Mobile and Windows CE but they both had the power to be customizable to the point of non-recognition. To me, that's flexibility. Not having the ability to assign a backdrop until the 4th generation is totalitarian control.

"Phones aren't for geeks, they are for regular people like my mother and my sister." This statement is a personal opinion and cannot be used to base the rest of the article on. It is simply not true. A phone is a personal thing. For me, I want my phone to have the power to do what I want it to do. My mom has her own phone. I don't need her to know how to use mine.

says:

Well, my mum finds it easier to use my Android phone than her dumb phone. And it's hard to find someone less tech-savvy.

For my girlfriend, I recently bought an Android phone as well and she loves it.

Apparently multitasking isn't a problem for them...

Functionality and ease of use aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, oversimplifying something can make it harder to use (like when a user wants to do some basic thing and can't because of stupid restrictions).

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...But there is an intrinsic problem here. I had to use some spelunking to find out what background processes were killing my performance. This is a big bucket of FAIL.

i LOL!

What did you expect? If you want "just phone" go buy Nokia or something, as a power user I want multi-process architecture!

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Wow, some people never really learn.
I completely agree with Malatesta in his argument. We (Windows Mobile users) need to learn from the past and give MS credit where it belongs. A lot of the limitations on Windows Phone is a direct result of learning from the past and sacrificing features that would compromise the user experience. This is not Windows Mobile crowd turning into Iphone fans, this is us evolving and understanding what led to Windows Mobile's ultimate death.

A part of this is looking at Android and seeing what it has done well and what it hasn't. Cramming all sorts of features into the phone is not a solution. Having a consistant user experience is. This is the core ingredient required to sell to the mass market. drphysx you may be a hardcore user who likes the freedom of Android - this is fine, Android is for you - but it is not solving a lot of the problems that faced Windows Mobile and will eventually end up with the same fate if nothing changes. Be smart, learn from competitors and learn from the past (Windows Mobile). There are plenty of sites and people out there bagging MS for having limitations on WP7 and calling it backwards.. so I say its nice to see these rare articles to show why those limitations are in place and what we gain from it (and if that involves using the competition then so be it). Well done Malatesta

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Well, Android is their main (and only) competitor and unfortunately they didn't learn anything from it.

Android shows how multitasking, exchanging content with PCs and managing content on the device itself are done right.

Microsoft also didn't learn anything from Apple's mistakes it seams. Why is there only isolated storage in WP7, like on the iPhone?
On the iPhone, this lead to a huge mess, where every application now has its own method of downloading content onto the phone and one can't access the content of the other.
On Android, it's as simple as a drag&drop and the system does everything else - for example drag or download a PDF onto the phone and immediately it's already there in Adobe Reader (and any other PDF viewer app).

Also, while Google should have stricter rules for its Market, they do the right thing by letting users install apps from other sources. A company can (and should) have rules for its own market, but it must not dictate what the user can or can't load onto his device.

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I can honestly see the appeal in Android - it is the same appeal as what Windows Mobile had - a very powerful Operating System with a lot of flexibility. But think it from a mass consumer point of view- the solution needs to be more elegant and the customer needs to be guided. Its like what you've said before, most people are stupid.

The problem is that MS has been burnt very badly with how that translates into consumer view and feedback. Most people can't figure out that a process in the background has gone bad and is chewing up CPU, they just know that Windows Mobile or Android doesn't perform as well as the Iphone (although they swear when they first bought it, it was way faster). Do we really want a repeat of that? Multitasking will come to Windows Phone, the OS is certainly capable of it, but the solution needs to be more elegant than what even Android does now (I personally wouldn't have a problem with living with an Android because I know what I am doing).

You say MS isn't learning anything from Android, I certainly think they have. There is absolute no doubt WP7 sits right down the centre of Iphone and Android. It features far more freedom and transparency than Apple's products, yet it is a lot more controlled than Android. If anything, Google is now learning from MS, and in Android 3.0 you'll see stuff like the elimination of custom UIs.

I like Android - honestly. But at the same time, I can appreciate why MS has taken certain decisions and its by looking at what the competitors have done, we can truley reflect on why certain decisions were made. So instead of bashing articles like this for looking at what's wrong with Android in the context of mass consumer appeal, we should be discussing it instead.

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[QUOTE]But think it from a mass consumer point of view- the solution needs to be more elegant and the customer needs to be guided.[/QUOTE]
Elegant - yes, that's what WP7 is.
But you can't say Android isn't easy to use. In fact, in many ways it offers a better user experience than WP7. WP7 is simple, but simple isn't necessarily easy to use.
WP7 features quite a lot of annoyances, like the lack of a quick app switching method, the lack of ways to quickly and easily copy content to and from the device, lots of wasted space in the UI etc.
Android isn't free from annoyances either, but despite that it's less simple, the user experience is better, because the whole OS is more well thought through (like how it handles notifications, how it handles content on the phone etc.).

[QUOTE]Most people can't figure out that a process in the background has gone bad and is chewing up CPU, they just know that Windows Mobile or Android doesn't perform as well as the Iphone[/QUOTE]
Well, Android DOES work as well as the iPhone. In fact, during the time I've been using the iPhone I had more freezes and slowdowns than with Android. Battery life is the same, despite that I have lots of things running on Android.

I'm sure you all close everything that runs in the background when your Laptop is running on battery? Right?

Of course not. Apps that run idle in the background don't have any measurable impact on performance or battery life.

If the apps don't run idle, then that's because the user wants them to do something, like for example streaming music. In that case, the user knows what's going on (yes even the "dumb" users) and that it will affect battery life and eventually performance.

[QUOTE]There is absolute no doubt WP7 sits right down the centre of Iphone and Android.[/QUOTE]
Nonsense.
The restrictions are an EXACT COPY of what Apple is doing.

Sitting in the centre would mean things like having an approval process for Marketplace apps, but allowing sideloading.
Microsoft doesn't do that, the copy Apple's AppStore-only approach.

Sitting in the centre would also mean MORE multitasking abilities than the iPhone. Again that is not the case.

WP7 doesn't sit in the centre, it's exactly the same as the iPhone AND THEY DID NOT LEARN ANYTHING.

[QUOTE]If anything, Google is now learning from MS, and in Android 3.0 you'll see stuff like the elimination of custom UIs.[/QUOTE]
Nonsense, again.
While a bit more control would be a good thing, Google isn't doing that.

And if you want to know WHY certain decisions at Microsoft have been made, there's an easy answer: Apple envy!
They still have not realized that Google is the company they will have to compete with.
As the smartphone market is growing, the iPhone will become irrelevant (looking at recent sales figures, one could argue that it already is) just like the Mac.
Android will be #1 selling smartphone OS in a few weeks and is already outselling the iPhone 3:1.

Microsoft just doesn't get it.

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Nice post, Vgmaster21 and very solid points. Drphysx, you've been owned. You can call Vgmaster21 your daddy now...

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Well, his whole post is full of utter nonsense and things that are plain wrong, so... nice job making a fool of yourself, rkstevens! ;-)

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Hahaha! Says you, who anyone reading these comments can tell has no credibility... other than being an expert on utter nonsense and being plain wrong, as well as being a fool. Now back to your hole with your precious task managers, fandroid boy...

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By the way, I was joking about the task managers, which you probably use even though you'll deny it. Lighten up...