WP Central
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Will Windows Phone 7.8 feature more than a new Start screen? Maybe.

With the announcement of Windows Phone 7.8 and the parallel announcement that current devices won’t get Windows Phone 8 Apollo, many have wondered if the new Start screen with customizable Live Tiles is all it will contain.

In essence, there are two camps on the matter—those who say Microsoft have only promised the new Start screen and those who pin their hopes on the “all we’ve announced so far...” line often touted by Microsoft when asked about the update.

Microsoft recently and directly told a few of us who cover tech media that Windows Phone 7.8 will only be the new Start screen with nothing else hinted at or mentioned. This is why we find many of the big players who cover Microsoft news taking this more conservative position because they are reporting, correctly, what they have been told.

But it is also true that Microsoft constantly uses the “all we have announced” line to cover themselves when certain plans are not solidified yet. And here at Windows Phone Central this is the position we’re taking. Yes, Windows Phone 7.8 is only the new Start screen but there could be more. When you add in the fact that Windows Phone 7.8 won’t come till after Windows Phone 8, you realize that Microsoft has a bit of wiggle room to change how Windows Phone 7.8 will be defined.

That doesn’t mean they can or will add more features but we think clearly Microsoft is leaving themselves the ability to be flexible.

This is backed up a bit further by Senior Product Manager and Windows Phone team member Larry Lieberman who recently gave a talk at TechEd 2012 on Windows Phone App and Game development. The presentation, available on Channel 9, is mostly a rehash of current trends in WP programming but at the end Lieberman takes some questions from the audience and one of them deals with 7.8. He responds to an audience question thusly:

“Will Windows Phone 7.8 get new features as well that you can access as a developer? Maybe. We haven't announced it yet.

All we've announced is the new Start screen at this point. Sorry, nothing new to announce. You're asking me stuff I can't answer."

Lieberman’s answer is interesting only because you can tell he is hedging. Hedging an answer is certainly different then taking a firm position on the matter and we believe this is for a reason. If Microsoft is only planning a new Start screen for 7.8 then they could easily come out and just say so putting an end to the speculation.  That’s not what Microsoft is doing though and we don’t think they’re being coy—we honestly believe that some of these decisions are still being made, hence the grey area on these answers.

We’ve said it before and we’ll say it again: this stuff is complicated. You can’t simply copy and paste a new Windows Phone 8 (NT) app or function into Windows Phone 7 (CE), instead you have to rewrite and re-code that function. It’s work, it’s money, it’s time and it requires appropriate management to make sure what is committed to is what is matched in the final product.

So in the end, we still believe Microsoft has more to show on 7.8 or rather, nothing is final just yet. That doesn’t mean you should assume that more than a new Start screen will come late in 2012 but we have a feeling that Redmond is looking to do what they can, when they can.

In other words, maybe. 

Thanks, Tasos, for the link

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Comments

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jonchai says:

Let's hope so. I'd be very pissed if they only give us a new start screen.

procen says:

Maybe Microsoft shouldn't give us any update at all either way some people will be pissed off anyway.

Tumultus says:

Would be fine with me! I don't like the new start screen anyway. Let's hope they won't add any features or functionality to the 7.8 update that makes it worth upgrading, so, that I can stay with my current start screen. :)

See, not everyone is eager to get the 7.8 start screen. :)

andreisz says:

How can you say that the actual start screen is better? Actually the new start screen will be better in many ways. It benefits of the whole width of screen, without that useless gap, it gives you more control to the screen and tiles, no need to scroll so much, you can see more and reach quickier the apps. The grid is more complex and more pleasing to the eye, you can control the colors of the tiles. The actual start screen is so gross and poor compared to the next one. I just can't understand people like you keep telling this.

nizzon says:

"You can control the color of the tiles" What do you mean?

mangoose says:

One can have seperate tile color for each tile

futurix says:

No, that is not the case.

Sicarius123 says:

The new start screen without the black down the side is aesthetically ugly. Not to mention that while you may consider the black side "wasted space" with medium sized tiles the new screen shows LESS information than the old screen. You didn't notice that filling that black space you hated so much made the tiles bigger at medium size? The new start screen will require more scrolling to show information unless you make all your tiles small.

BCH says:

As far as scrolling more, I thought this at first, too. 
But then I realized that many of the tiles I have at the top are notification tiles (three email tiles, one messaging tile, the phone tile) and can be reduced to a 1/4-sized tile.  What formerly took the space of two rows can now be oriented in the space of a single medium-sized tile, e.g. clustering the e-mail and phone tiles in a 2x2 square (sized equal to medium tile) so my communication notifications are grouped.  The messaging tile also has the option of going full-width so you can see the last text message without opening the app.  Overall, more options with the potential to see MORE, not LESS, without scrolling.
I just hope they use text reflow for the calendar and messaging tile.  As it is right now, my appointments are always truncated.  The same can be said of music tracks, which is really annoying (and a carry-over from the Zune HD).  MSFT's obsession with Metro's white space philosophy needs to concede a little something to function, I think.

.Emi. says:

"The new start screen without the black down the side is aesthetically ugly."
 
seriously, have you used the new start screen? NO. so maybe you should close your mouth, youhavent used it, nor see it (more than in couple pics and keynote video).
its just " aesthetically ugly" becuase you are used to the black space with arrow and you have never used the new start screen. if the start screen was without the black space from beginning, and they addded it with an arrow, you would be complaining about it. so do a favor and wait at least until you use it to say "its ugly" because you really havent seen it, havent used it, havent personalized it.

Coperyte says:

What u fail to realize is that with the new screen being so customizable, u can still have the gap. U can pin medium sized tiles in a 2x2 fashion like we currently have since tiles can be placed almost anywhere. Think outside the box a little bit.

Tumultus says:

andreisz,

I never said the old (current) start screen is better! I said I don't like the new start screen. Please don't put anything into my words that isn't there!

timwp12 says:

well go to cluttered android.or iPhone way. You just a newbie lol...

stui83 says:

Funny you mention because I picked up a galaxy sIII and used the windows approach of simplicity to the way I lay out apps and widgets and have found that although my droid screen does not look as good as WP7 it is more efficient. I think the new WP7.8 start screen won't look as good as WP7 but will also be more efficient. The smoked campaign will get smokier!

jfa1 says:

From all that I have read  if you want to keep your start screen the same in 7.8 you  with the possible exception of t5he "gutter".  You may even be able to keep that as well!   I for one hope they add a bunch of stuff to get as close to W8P as the hardware allows!  You are entitled to your own opinion but we dont have to agree with it!

jonchai says:

Why don't you stay with your stock version then? Why bother about NoDo? Why even bother about Mango? Since you bought your phone stock, you must have liked your phone without updates right? Show me proof that you're willing to revert back to stock, then I guess we people can be complacent and stop complaining. What say you?

myjota says:

I even stay with own black lumia black mango start screen.

mmoses1978 says:

It would be nice to have more features but at the same time we should not be mad if we don't. I mean we are WP fans and they need the sales to ketch up. If they give us features most people Will not buy the new phones.

Do you guys really think that if MS had something even remotely planned they wouldnt have said it? Think on how pissed people are... all the bad media cover... They needed to mention all the good stuff they had at hand to tackle this... if they didnt, its because there wasnt any.
 
From a business perspective, it dosent make any sense to further invest in windows CE. they wont get any returns on they money they put on it. You dont have to be an analyst to understand this.
I am a MS fan myself, always been. I defended and supported WP from the begining, even convinced some of my friends to switch. I constantly buy apps just to support them. Cosntantly wrote positive comments on tech blogs... and they rape me off... And I perfetly understand why they did it this way.... and I'm happy they are making choices for the long run... but why if they thought on themselves first I shoulndt do the same? They made a decision that will maximixe their revenues, and the most strategic decision possible, to position themselves right... So why dont I do the same? Every app that I buy will be a waste.. every minute that I spend with my 900 I'm losing money...  If they are not commited to me... why should I be commited to them? I want to see WP suceed... But I dont want to make sacrifices for it, because they didnt not made sacrifices for me.... Developers wont do more apps for me, and I wont be getting bug fixes for the ones I have right now... My camera sucks, I dont have pandora, I cant play socially with my friends in other platforms... I have a nest thermostat and I dont have an app for it... I have a network camera and I have no app for it... and now I know I wont ever be getting those... just imagine how pissed I am? Screw WP... I had enough of it...

@EngineerArtistP...Basically, Microsoft can't reveal anymore about WP7.8, without revealing aspects of WP8!  They are unwilling to give any additional details for WP8 at this point, thus it only makes sense, at least to me, why they would not discuss anything other than the Start Screen for WP7.8.

Odog4ever says:

Be pissed? 7.8 is only the start screen.

simplescheme says:

I was at TechEd Europe this week and in almost all WP related sessions the speakers hinted that there may be more for 7.8 but that currently they can't say anything because nothing is officially announced.
My guess is that some of the new consumer features will also be available on 7.8 plus some changes due to Zune Software being retired and the new XBOX Music and XBOX Video services coming.
They also had the WP8 prototype device from the WP event the week before there and showed the new announced features (wallet etc.).

sherwin892 says:

Maybe they noticed all the angry current WP7.5 users and the negativity and they changed their minds and are now going to add more than just the start screen.

Maybe.

Residing says:

Nah.  They can't talk about 7.8 without talking about 8.0; obviously, they are trying to keep as many features as possible under wraps right now, so they could only announce the one thing that is shared in 8.0 - the start screen.
 
When they talk about 8.0 in detail, then we will see all of what will be included beyond the start screen for 7.8

Wyn6 says:

I'm pretty sure a petition full of angry people attempting to change something that's already changing the way they want it to change, is a futile endeavor. It's like signing a petition to get Intel or AMD to make faster, more powerful, less power-hungry CPUs. 

.Emi. says:

yeah because developing something huge as features to soemthing like Windows Phone OS its a thing of 1 day. righttt. stop being naive, the summit was for developers about windows phone 8!, why would they talk more about 7.5 or 7.8 if obviously that wasnt important.

sherwin892 says:

I'm actually on the boat where I'm completely happy with 7.8, for now. I think that of course since not everything is finalized that they can still add or omit some features that is why we don't know completely what will be included in the final release. And yes expressing or voicing your concerns or desires do to a certain extent work or have influence, hence the updates and/or focus groups. 

funkyGeneral says:

I know I bought a windows mobile 6.3 phone not long before 6.5 came out, and that lasted me until my lumia 800. So I will be satisfied with any update I receive.

likaros88 says:

I have 900, liked to get a little more then a startscreen.

BTW, here in Sweden, we love WPCentral ;)

Nakazul says:

Oh yes, we got a hole lot of love :-D

nizzon says:

We sure do :)

venetasoft says:

We love WPCentral in Italy too !!!

ZuNuKoo says:

I'm happy with either, this phones OS has served me well. Did anyone think who bought a phone think it would be upgraded to new OS? Not updating the versions. It's like buying a car, a new one is released ever year, do you think they'll upgrade it from a '12 to a '13 for free? But wait.. I have a lease (contract) No where in your lease (contract) does it say your phone will be upgradeable. Stop whining bite the bullet and wait another two, wait no.. Another 1 1/2 years to buy a new phone. Some plans let you upgrade early so it'll only be a year from when WP8 is released. Another note.. I like the new start screen it's like having a WP8 buy with WP7 under the hood. I'd used the example of a kit car. Looks like something completely different when you open the hood. Average users won't care if they have WP8 or WP7. They just want a phone that works.

ZuNuKoo says:

this comment is meant mainly for people who bought a phone within the last few months. And others that have said they would drop WPs.

xmarklive says:

Shut up silly. Have you ever heard of cars being updated a year or two after its been released no ....well what about a phone being updated two years after release yes ....ok then

WP_elcapo says:

Don't tell him to shut up, he's right. You shut up

rogeret says:

Yes, I have heard of cars being updated after one year.  Car companies used to do this all the time.  Do you wonder why a 57 Chevy is sought after, but a 56 or 58 is not so famous?  It's because the models changed every year.  Not so much now because they realized it's cheaper to just churn out the same car for several years. 

fogel35 says:

The car analogy works better if you buy a car but the company decides not to fix known problems. "sorry about that known fuel line, our new 2013's don't have that problem".

Wyn6 says:

That's not a good analogy. There's nothing wrong with current phones. Except, that people feel entitled to the bestest, newestest thing.

fogel35 says:

I beg to differ there are problems similar to the fuel line.  Skype doesn't work properly on this platform.  Instant messaging doesn't work right on this platform. Basically background tasks is absolutely broken on this platform and this is on a 2012 device.  But don't worry, it will fixed if you buy a new 2013 phone. 

Uh... No I haven't ever heard of a phone getting a "full" update two years after release. Even the iPhone4 which is getting 6.0 won't have siri or turn by turn nav. No company keeps updates going that long because it deters people from buying new hardware. I agree the car analogy is weak and well overused, but the fact that MS is going to bring 7.8 to all current WP customers is unheard of. The two+ year old focus getting 7.8???? That's impressive.

blackprince says:

A better analogy is video game systems. Lets take Sony for example they had the wildly successful PS2, a huge library of games and lots of fans. Then they release the PS3, the offer backwards compatibility for PS1 games across the board but only some models could play PS2 games. That was due to the fact they had to use a hardware emulator for PS2 games which naturally meant an increased cost on the system. That decision didn't last long and hardware emulation was thrown out in later iterations because they were already take huge losses on every PS3 sold. They had to make the PS3 profitable and something had to go. This is similar to what we are seeing. The changing of kernels means that features that can be added to Windows 8 are probably easier to do because the NT kernel has been around for ages and many people at Microsoft have tonnes of experience coding for it and many established features for the kernel. CE was never meant to be a full featured OS and lacks the power to do many of the things we saw announced so it would take considerable resources to add those features. Making 7.8 an expensive endeavor, so anything added has to be worth the time and money spent. WP8 gets everyone's attention now and rightly so. I'd rather Microsoft focus on the future then trying to give legacy devices as much as they can. This is a logical decision they have made, it may sting for some users but history has shown they get over it eventually usually by getting new hardware or software.

eshy says:

No, not really. game consoles usually last a while before the next generation is released. The Xbox 360 was released on November 22, 2005, the PlayStation 3 was on November 11, 2006. It's 2012 and no new consoles are coming this year. that's a 7-8 year life for a product that costs half (250-300$ for a console, 500-700$ for a smartphone).

JasonTracy says:

Don't compare phones to cars. I had an iPhone before my Windows phone, and though my iPhone is 3 years old, it still runs the latest OS. I expected AT LEAST as much from Microsoft, who normally is better about being backwards compatible. Mine is a reasonable expectation.

R0bR says:

Not the same, you're talking running the latest IOS on third generation hardware. Try running the latest on first or 2nd generation iPhones, that's right you can't. I dumped my iPhone because iOS 4 performance on my 3GS sucked and caused having to reboot the phone even more. On my Touch I decided not to upgrade but most apps don't run because they require 4.0.

eshy says:

You also can't run WP7.5 on WM5 devices. there's a difference between supporting a 5 year old device with the latest OS and a three month old device

False. You don't have all the new OS features. You have the update number, and that's about it. That's what MS should have done, give WP8 to all and then just shortchange some of the features on current Gen phones

jdevenberg says:

The car analogy people keep making is a stupid one.  A car is hardware.  I did not expect my hardware to be upgraded.  There is no good analogy to smartphone software in the automotive industry.  If you could flash ROMs on Windows Phone the analogy would be a little more accurate.  Because no, your car doesn't get upgraded, but if there is something with your car you are unhappy with, so long as you are willing to invest the time and/or money you can upgrade it.  You can reflash or replace or augment the ECU, you can change the aphulstery, you can add a turbo charger, you can replace the radio with a more functional unit.  Once your auto maker abandons your car, you are able to modify it and add functionality yourself.  This is more like upgrading your PC from Windows 7 SP1 to Windows 8.  I don't expect my Desktop's monitor to suddenly be touch screen.  I don't expect it to all of the sudden of NFC functionality.  I do expect to be able to install the latest OS (even if it is at a cost) and get the features my hardware supports.

eshy says:

Actually, it's not such a bad analogy for some cars. Ford owners for example just got their Sync software updated. so even cars are getting software updates that WP7 devices won't get...

Odog4ever says:

I think comparing apples to apples, you can't play PS3 games on a PS2. Its different hardware but more importantly the way the software interacts with the hardware is completely different. So map that onto the WP7 to WP8 situation. Same thing is happing but for some reason people's expectations are different.
 
I can't help but feel like some people bought WP for what they thought it could be in the future and not what it was. That is not a smart way to buy electronics. Buying a phone that doesn't meet you needs today, on any platform iOS and Android included, is just dumb.  
 
I bought a gen 1 Focus that meet all my needs on day one (coming off a two year bid with an iPhone 3G). All the updates through 7.5 was just icing on the cake. I didn't and still don't have the false sense of entitlement that the newer WP users have.
 
Meanwhile Apple pretty much established the forced hardware upgrade march and they don't even have a legitimate excuse like new kernels. I remember my iPhone 3G running like garbage after installing newer OS versions. I'd rather have a smooth experience than the "perception" that my phone is on the same playing field as the newest phone.

Forc3 says:

gosh! joe belfiore already said at win phone summit that 7.8 will be more than just the startscreen!! Just watch it again on youtube.... Why is everyone going crazy about this when its officialy confirmed?!

zacman says:

Yes. Watch again. He announces the new start screen and then he says that the guy from Nokia will now tell the audience what else will come for current users. Then a desperate looking Nokia managers amnounces some new apps for Lumias. I think most people are mixing this up. Belfiore never said there will be more than a new start screen in WP7.8.

I *think* you both me Terry Myerson, not Joe Belfiore. Either way, my interpretation of this (and most people's) is that Myerson was only referring to new Nokia apps, not 7.8 features.

schlubadub says:

It was the way it was introduced, which was as zacman said... He basically said "but wait there's more!", Nokia came on and waffled about Lumia apps, and then they changed topics or the presentation ended. I remember thinking "wtf? Nokia didn't talk about any other features at all!?!"

drg says:

All I want apart from the Start Screen is integrated Skype which I think is what most of us want. Obviously everything else can't be done cause of hardware but Skype is software so if we get that I'll be more than content. If not I'll just have to force the issue and upgrade.

xmarklive says:

Well they can't do Skype and leave other VoIP out in the cold so they have to implement all VoIP carriers

I would imagine they can, because Skype is a Microsoft brand now. Nothings wrong with integrating one service while ignoring competing ones, especially when Skype is so popular already.

venetasoft says:

I think so, Skype lack of incoming call notification is due to server timeout issues, maybe this can be adjusted (Tango works). Maybe Skype will be not integrated info contacts, but the App will be fixed...

They said that there would be more than just the start screen to come at summit. My guess is that we will get all new features that don't depend on new hardware. They will surely want the branding to be consistent, so I imagine we will get the new maps.

AriesDog says:

"Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst." - English proverb

zacman says:

Who really cares? App developers are already giving up WP7.x. As an example Navigon has announced that there won't be any more updates for their WP7.x software. Hence no new maps, no bug bugfixing, nothing. They will release a new WP8 version though. But I highly doubt that you will even be able to upgrade from the WP7.x version to the new one. So basically you have to pay twice. I'm pretty sure that's how lots of commercial developers will handle the situation.

I doubt you'll have to pay twice. They'll just update their app to WP8 compatible and WP7 user can't use it but they can still use/download the previous Mango version.

It's like when Mango apps came out when not everyone had Mango.

zacman says:

WP8 apps get a new app id iirc.

venetasoft says:

As a software house, we want our Apps have maximum possible visibility, so we will support wp7.X almost for next 18 months (minimum). It will take times wp8 devices grow ;) Even when wp8 device number will be superior to wp7.X ones, we will support both, with reduced functionality whereas 7.X lacks something (ie nfc). Microsoft development suite will permit us to use the same code to compile over wp7.X and wp8 (and WinRT), so there are no efforts at all to support both.

EAA575 says:

Logic at its best.

cam45fblax says:

If all developers follow this route then most WP7.x users should be happy, we get app support for long enough until most can upgrade to new hardware...but how many devs are really going to do this?

eshy says:

Devs that are trying to make money will have to do it. Unless WP8 becomes the best selling phone ever and sells X5 the current WP7 user base in just a few months. (as long as WP7 devices are more than 15-20% of the WP market, you have to target them as well, so pretty much as long as the lumia900 users are stuck with their contract...)

Odog4ever says:

Yes! Why can people understand the logic behind developers continuing to support WP7.x devices?
On day on of WP8 launching the total persentage of users still on WP7.x will be 100%. And all WP8 can run the 100k WP7.x apps already in the marketplace.  It just makes business sense.

Bruno H says:

As a Nokia owner I don't care. Nokia owns Navigon and they already are talking about upgrading Nokia Drive. So I will get updates for my phone anyway. Happy I bought Nokia phones for my family :-)

Tumultus says:

Last time I checked, Navigon was a Garmin company, based in Germany. Nokia doesn't owns it.

TechAbstract says:

Garmin uses Nokia's Navteq maps.

DesRed says:

"Nokia owns Navigon and they already are talking about upgrading Nokia Drive."
 
It's Navteq, not Navigon. Pretty good in Nokia Drive if you ask me, and not to mention free. ;)

jcagga says:

Whoever wants to make money, its so dumb not to expand your market share everywhere possible to squeeze out every dime out there. So no its dumb not to support mango.

zacman says:

Everyone who already wanted the app probably already has it. And the handful of new users that will buy a WP7 after the announcement aren't worth the effort. It's the same like Suilivan said why there isn't a WP8 update for current users: because the costs compared to the benefits aren't worth the effort. When it's true for MS it is also true for app developers.

nablor says:

And this is why I have stopped buying apps/games ,I don't want to be left with possibly broken buggy software that will never get 7** updates.
Why fix for 7* when you can charge again for 8.

Good point. I'll do the same

Bee Mon says:

You shouldn't be buying broken buggy software in the first place. There's plenty of free broken buggy software around to choose from.

Wyn6 says:

If you own an app, YOU WILL NOT BE CHARGED FOR IT AGAIN. How hard is that to understand? You've already purchased the app. I purchased an apps pre-Mango. Developers then updated those apps to Mango. I didn't have to buy them again. But, I guess some people insist on taking to the suicide-watch end of of life. Good luck on that ledge.

Odog4ever says:

You can't use logic with some people. Maybe they are coming from a platform were double-charging was the norm and expected WP to be the same?

WP_elcapo says:

Always something negative from you

zacman says:

MS just always fucks it up. To completely kill all the momentum that WP had is just plain stupid. After the summit the newspapers weren't full of news about how good WP8 will be but how all current owners are being left behind. Oh and that the Lumias now won't sell at all. Really great marketing from MS. They just don't get it.

Bee Mon says:

They don't have to sell the Lumias, they just give them free with data plans. Plus with Nokia providing free quality exclusive apps and games for it, why not? Once they are elligible, they can then upgrade to a WP8 device (which basically needs some time to stabilize, we know how buggy Microsoft systems can be) later, maybe even for free, and still get to use all the exact same apps and games from their old phone. I am a Lumia owner and I don't feel left behind and from the recent poll here, I think most other owners also don't feel the same way. Maybe the newspapers you were reading should have interviewed us real owners.

WP_elcapo says:

They do get it. You think they didn't test WP8 on existing hardware before they claimed all this? If so then you're reasoning is screwed.

zacman says:

Sullivan clearly said that WP8 not for current phones was NOT because of technical reasons but because of a business decision because they didn't sell well enough to justify the costs.

Netro1 says:

From what I know is that all those languages which will be supported in WP8 (that covers phone language, Marketplace, Xbox Live) will NOT be supported in WP7.8, which is pretty bad, because it's just a software thing. I think all software things which are coming to WP8 should come to WP7.8.

venetasoft says:

It is not correct, only c++ apps will be not compatibile (some 3d game engines)

Bee Mon says:

That is also not correct. C# apps targeting the new WinRT and DirectX API will also not run unless you have insider information that says WP7.8 will get the WinRT and DirectX API.

venetasoft says:

Yes its true too, anyway it will affect mainly 3d games.
99% of wp8 apps will be wp7.x compatibile as they share the same code. Developers want to sell Apps so they will target the wider 7.x models too as it comes free from compiler.

jdevenberg says:

Also not correct.  WP8 uses different coding for user interface (MS is dropping Silverlight, which is what WP7 uses).  So if the app is written using the new WP8 coding, it will not run on WP7.  So 0% of WP8 apps will run in WP7.  What MS is allowing is for developers to still code using the WP7 code for the foreseeable future and those apps will run in WP8.  So developer can contiue to release 7.X apps and target WP7 AND WP8, but no WP8 app written using the new WinRT wil run on WP7 devices.

eshy says:

That's why you won't see too many WP8 apps for a while. It just won't make sense for developers.

schlubadub says:

Yeah, not correct. If the app uses even 1 WP8 API call then it won't work on WP7. I already have an idea that simply won't work on WP7, otherwise I would've done it already.

eshy says:

language support is another feature they get pretty much for free because of the kernel switch (windows already supports all these languages)

xmarklive says:

I think many of us are worried about new apps and aren't quite sure if that new amazing app will only be available on wp8 could you imagine if and when ms start offering apps only on wp8 or if angry birds mars-Pluto -universal is only wp8 January 2013 how many of us would be upset not having the funds available to upgrade right now.

Bee Mon says:

In fact I am worried that all we get will be ports of IPhone and Android apps to WP8. Frankly I don't want to use hand-me downs IPhone and Android apps. I believe an exclusive WP7 app will be easier to use, run smoother and looks way better on a WP8 device that apps ported from another platform. Why is the advantage of having a WP8 anyway if all you get on it is old versions of IPhone and Android software. Who will be laughing at whom then? So go play with your Words with Friends, I'll still be hanging around the Wordament lounge.

jdevenberg says:

Well, at the very least they will get new UI's because neither the code that Android or iOS uses for their UI's are cross compatible with other platforms.  

sherwin892 says:

I will admit that many of us have become obsessed with software updates. And no, not everyone nor do the majority of WP owners now care for updates. However, I will argue that given iPhones track record, ppl do like updates as it improves their phones and keep the user loyal to the brand or OS. We really are the only ones we want this update. While it doesn't render their phones useless, updates are like added bonuses that again improves the overall experience. Lumia users and new WP users who are upset have a reason to be so. Many of us on the other hand, who have had our phones for quite some time and are probably due for an upgrade come fall are indifferent. I think it would serve MS well if they 7.8 update is more than just the start screen and it will be according to some of you. This makes me happy.

Its not the features dude, its the apps!

Residing says:

But EngineerArtistP, you bought your WP7/7.5 device based on the app count and availability at the time you purchased it, right?  Or did you buy your device 'hoping' that big name apps would definitely be coming to the platform? 
 
There are still plenty of top tier developers/apps STILL not on WP7.5, and this was the situation even BEFORE WP8 was announced; at the end of the day, those who were/are interested in developing for WP7.5, will develop for 7.8.  With that said, those who were NEVER interested in WP7.5, still aren't interested in WP7.5 or 7.8, and there is no guarantee that they will even develop for WP8!

Bee Mon says:

I am a Lumia user and thank you for your concern but I can voice out my own grievances if I wanted to. I will still be getting exclusive quality apps and games fof free from Nokia for months to come. So no need to feel pity for me. I don't know about HTC Titan 2 users though but I am not accustomed to speaking on behalf of people that can speak for themselves.

sherwin892 says:

I realize that you can voice your own opinions and I absolutely respect that but nowhere in my post did I say that I feel pity or was being sorry for Lumia users implied. I said that the Lumia users or new to WP who are angry, as some have expressed, have a reason to be. I did not say that all Lumia user or any other are angry. 

zeekhan786 says:

I am kind of sitting on the fence here. Wp7.5 is brill and im very happy with it. New start screen looks awesome and im looking forward to playing with it.

The big problem is of course apps and features. For me apps aren't that important. When I first got my Lumia 800 I installed every free app I could fund only to delete most of them a few weeks ago. As long as we get some good apps which are useful, and I hear PayPal app is coming, then ill be happy.

Glad MS thought enough of us to give us something and nokias new playto and camera apps seem to be bringing a lot of features to the phone.

To summarise would have been nice to get it all but I'M HAPPY =D

percistratus says:

A lot has to be don't to make wp7 more mature, and to expect only a home screen refresh is not much. I'd so much love Skype integration wp7.8

I hope when 7.8 does drop AT&T doesn't use a staggered release to roll out the update otherwise I'll be stuck waiting anxiously for when it's my turn to get the update notification. Still waiting on my Tango update (which from what I've heard, also includes a Samsung firmware update) for my Focus Flash...

aubreyq says:

It'd be nice if AT&T did SOMETHING to fix the disappearing keyboard on my Focus that I've had since Mango was released.

JD Miles says:

+1 and I expect many many more on this issue. It is intolerable for AT&T to have ignored this when the fix has been available from MSFT for 6 plus months. Are we now NEVER going to get it or have to wait another 6 just want to thank AT&T ( wish I could thank them by switching carriers, but they are the "premier" win phone carrier just sad ) !!

TechAbstract says:

You can get it easily.

eshy says:

Microsoft told reporters at the wp summit that the 7.8 update will bypass carriers. I think they said the same for 8.x updates. That means AT&T won't hold it up like they did previous updates. But, the staggered release of updates was actually something Microsoft did and will probably still do. (they also mentioned enthusiests will be able to get updates sooner and be beta testers for them)

Tahiti Bob says:

Last I heard, about 10% of android phones run Ice Cream Sandwich and Jelly Bean is out this month. Yet I don't hear people writing petitions all day long or going on a Google boycott, they're happy to have a phone that works just as well as when it was bought. Point is, this whole 7.8 story makes WP users look like whiners and that's sad. Microsoft didn't even have to do 7.8, let's be happy they are and stop the complaining/bitching.

WP_elcapo says:

Couldn't agree more

yes, but they apps for ICS run on gingerbread!!! If one gets the update, the other will too.

Bee Mon says:

ALL apps for ICS runs on gingerbread??! LOL How naive.

EAA575 says:

If all apps on ICS run on gingerbread, then I dare you to run Chrome for Android on a gingerbread device.
Exactly.

eshy says:

Because developers are still forced to target Android 2.x, you know why? because no one has 4.x. would you target only 10% of the android user base? The same thing will happen with windows phone, developers will still have to target 7.5 as long as that's where the market share is. this is where ios is better (almost all devices out there are running ios5, easier to target your app to the latest os where everyone gets the update)

jdevenberg says:

If someone really wants ICS on their non updated device, they can root and get it.  There is no equivilent option for WP, so getting updates is more critical to keep your high end users happy. If I could root my phone and get more functionality out of it, I wouldn't be nearly as upset about no WP8, as I'm sure XDA would be able to get it running on the Lumia.  So maybe MS can add an unlocked bootloader to the 7.8 update since they don't want to support it anymore.  They can let the community do it for them.

WP_elcapo says:

How many average joes know how to do that?

eshy says:

WP7 devices were also rooted by XDA folks, custom ROMS were deployed on these. WP7 hardware isn't that secure (WP8 might be tougher). if you look at the percentage of android users who even know what rooting is, it will be less than 1%

eshy says:

At the beginning, with the first 2.x devices were released, a lot of people were complaining about the lack of upgrades. I even heard some G1 users complaining about being stuck with 1.6. It was exactly the same. the early adopters were bitching in forums. now, they're just used to it and they lost all hope of updates. What you don't hear, is people outside these blogs/forums complaining because they really don't care.

brorim says:

Tbh i love my phone as it is.. The new start screen will simply just make it even better

procen says:

Same here and it will reduced the amount of scrolling. Now all my favorite apps will be together with just a touch of the screen.

ustudio says:

That event as Joe said wasn't to tell everyone the end user functions its purpose was to give a glimpse (to developers, etc) at some of the new features coming to windows phone (just 8 of them) and that would include 7.8 as well. If all it gets is a screen the it should be 7.6 me I just think it's just being secretive as they didn't want to give apple any new ideas , A end user event will come later closer to release as they're pretty busy right now. Windows 8, windows 8 phones, the surface rt, surface pro, and windows phone 7.8. And also they want to get the holiday sales so just like apple they want that last minute push remember a new iPhone(this one will be completely new) is coming. There's probably at least 50 new features coming for wp8 I'd bet it has to be if they want to steal apples thunder.

GP07 says:

IF they are going to give us more with 7.8 then we're talking about new features that will also be in WP8 that they haven't talked about.  It doesn't follow the new MS way of saying nothing till the time is right, compared to mango where they spilled the beens 6 months before RTM and had the other OSs copy features.
 
I'll wait to see what goes down but personally I think I'll be getting a new phone anyways.  The current hardware has no support for DirectX 11 which is core to WP8 and future games.   If gaming is something you do care about then you should be looking into a new phone later this year or in 2013 because at some point those native C/C++ DX11 games will start to come out and regardless of what we do or do not get in 7.8, the current mango hardware GPUs do NOT support the API.

eshy says:

If you care about gaming, you should upgrade even if WP8 could run on existing devices. The difference in performance will be big

I hope they give us IE 10. It handles web better than IE 9. And a better Skype integration.

zeekhan786 says:

I agree IE10 looks great.

eshy says:

Both of these were announced for WP8 already, no reason for them to keep quiet about it. there are consumer features for WP8 that weren't announced, some of those might make it to 7.8. The only reason to think more features are coming to 7.8 is that Microsoft doesn't want to announce these before they announce WP8

buddler says:

I think there should be a new alternative to angry birds. Should be called "angry windows phone users". 300 lvls+ could shorten waiting for wp8 and running out contracts.

Well dont be so mad at Microsoft. Atleast they are honest and told us what they are giving. Unlike Apple which gave IOS 6 to even iPhone 3gs but in truth it doesn't offer any functionality to that phone.

JasonTracy says:

WHAT?? iOS 6 still gives Apple's new Maps app, which was one of the really big announcements for 6.

lesnjoro says:

Really hope for more than jus a start screen revamp.. Universal bluetooth maybe.. Ussd code maybe.. Is that really much to ask for...

ejlee072006 says:

I want to see the wp8 nokia/surface... 7.8 not really

Jnero20 says:

I really want a screen shot feature! Think that'll be in wp8 or possibly come to wp7.8?

ejlee072006 says:

I agree dude... Men my screen ryt now is beautiful.. When people see it they always like
What kind of phone is that?? Hahaha

anodynamic says:

I think the main reason for the start screen being revealed already is that it's something that concerns developers, as they would find the options for tile sizes fairly quickly. Not revealing the whole thing before the dev tools would probably have caused some amount of confusion, along with more "official homemade WP8 mock-up!!!" images floating around in the search results.

So, as it affects apps on current and future devices it feels like something that had to be announced, as well as being something that would help start the pre-release buzz.

I get think "need-to-know" is a useful term to consider when trying to figure out the strategies here.

mmoses1978 says:

Can't believe people are talking about dropping WP lol. Well go to android lol look at the Samsung galaxy s3 , it just came out with Ics and a week later the release Android 4.1. Now apple did the same thing with ios 6. At least Microsoft will give us 7.8. Or just buy a new phone with wp8, which most of us are due for. We have gotten all Microsoft updates why complain because of this. And wp8 is hardware dependent .

ramrac says:

I just hope we'll get IE10. IE9 is painfully slow in Javascript execution (when you click on something on facebook or other javascript sites and you have to wait for 5-10 seconds for it to be selected or pop up), and I don't have the money to buy a new phone again already. The graphics processor isn't as fast, but the same processor gets much better results in android, so it has to be the browser.
If they don't give us IE10, my phone will (in half a year, when websites get more heavier just as they are now much heavier and slower than 6-12 months ago) be as good as useless as a smartphone for anything else than calling, texting (sms, email, whatsapp), facebooking (it still doesn't work well enough, neither the integrated one nor the App, and I have to always triple-check and go into the browser and visit the desktop page to see everything), sports tracking (still works shtty and choppy and laggy, and probably not nearly as good as the same Apps on iOS or Android), and looking up 2-3 things like IMDb or a public transport App, and with that basically be on the same level as a 40-100€ Nokia Asha. Plus, Zune messed up my whole music collection, fkuced up the tags, changed or deleted the album and song covers...I had to put in a lot of work and am not nearly back to where it was before...couldn't it have just used the normal tags and normal covers, like Winamp and every other music app does? But noooo...it HAS to do things its own way....and then it doesn't even recognize the name of the Artists to pull the backgrounds for the Zune App (except for maybe 4-5), and I have manually link them with Zune Social Tagger, and EVEN THEN it doesn't work...fking crap.
I will have to buy either a used phone then (and there's no guarantee it will end up being a WP) or get a cheap 100-200€ tablet for surfing the web (which would be good because it also comes with a bigger screen, and it's 2-3 times cheaper than a same-specced phone and I can just keep my phone for phone-duties like texting and calling...great huh, bought a "Smartphone" but could've just bought a Nokia Asha), and the only thing in that pricerange will be the Nexus 7 and other cheap Android tablets, Windows RT slates won't be under 300-400, guaranteed. But then again, a Tablet isn't in your pocket at all times...so I might even get a new phone in the Winter on contract or something where I don't have to buy it outright..but that would definitely not be a WP...even though if you'd have asked me yesterday, I would've told you that my next phone will definitely be a WP and my first tablet a W8 tablet, now that I am typing this and remembering everything, I am pretty sure it won't be either...I mean...W8 tablet...for what, it doesn't have any Apps yet and won't have any for at least 2 years (just look at WP, so don't give me the whole "but it will grow" bs, I already went through that bs with bada and WP, I am not their social service to help them out with money, I want the same functionality that iOS and Android users have been enjoying for 2-3 years, now, not to wait another 3 years...), and is nearly useless, either get an Ultrabook with a detachable touchscreen (but that would be crazy expensive) or get a seperate tablet and laptop.
Like I always say, but didn't keep in mind when I bought my WP..."Who buys cheap, buys twice"...now I will have to buy a new phone or a tablet as well...instead of just buying a good, technically-mature, fully-developed, fully functional and well specced phone in the first place, with which I could've been happy for over 2 years...
I am not one of those people who got annoyed over the update..but now that I am typing this I AM getting pretty annoyed by MS for punishing us who have jumped into their platform early and we pretty much have a glorified feature-phone for the whole time (hoping the Apollo Update would fix that for us...) and now the future, and that is not going to change. With an iPhone, at least it runs top-notch and isn't outdated in half a year like my WP, where you have to constantly be on the lookout for better hardware and have to envy the other phones for their browser functionality and their realiable in-the-pocket-computer-connectivity where you basically don't have to go on your computer ever to do things, while I have to go on the computer for almost everything, and have to fear whether my facebook messages and uploads and everything even reach their destination at all, and whether it's the right one and not end up in someone elses inbox or my wall, it just doesn't feel reliable and trustworthy. At least you get the new browser update and the speed improvements and your Apps keep getting supported (we will be without new Apps and App-Updates from around January-March, mark my words) and things like that, and plus the phones are still fast enough after 1.5 years and thus fully support a 2 year lifecycle, no user gets disappointed after half a year or one year and feels like he has a useless phone. I'm pretty sure, after their "announcement" Microsoft got a letter with the letters WTF? from the AT&T CEO, they put their weight behind it and now they are screwed because their customers will be unhappy after they realize that they are not getting new Apps or Updates for Apps after 1 year.

I got bored reading after the first paragraph, but I think the point you're trying to make is that you hope for a little more than what you have. My question is... were you happy with the phone before the announcement of WP8 and WP7.8? If yes, shut up. If no, why did you buy the phone in the first place?

ramrac says:

If you don't read, then don't reply. I see you replying under everyone's post, like you have something to say about whether we are allowed to feel disappointed or not, what we are allowed to hope for or what may or may not be important missing functionality for us. It's not your call, kid.
Believe it or not, most of the tech-interested people who bought into WP (and it was mostly those kinds of people who bought it from launch till the relase of Nokia Lumias) instead of just getting an iPhone or Android like the rest of the normal people in the world, did so on the promise that it will become better, that deficencies will be removed and that it will get updated on their devices as new developments are done. Those people built the base for App development in the first place (no users -> No apps), reported bugs, had their phone send usage reports, did a lot of "promotion" for the platform etc etc etc. And these people are now being ditched, with their old/new phones in hand, for which they won't have no use for in the future, when all App developers are now starting to port their Apps to NT, and everything the "idiots" (like me) who were stupid enough to believe MS (for example about the updates) and bought into WP are left with are old CE Apps that haven't been updated since 2010,2011 or early-2012.
Plus, we don't have a proper youtube app (primetube runs like sht, Metrotube was better but still not good enough or as good as the desktop version), our facebook app is a joke since you need to go to the desktop site to actually do something, visiting google in the browser is also a joke since it displays some 2006 pda/s60-smartphone page that is tiny and hard to tap etc, it only displays a modern mobile site when you change your browser to mobile, but then the rest of the internet shows you ugly mobile sites...it's a chore.

WP_elcapo says:

Apps will continue development, how many times does this need to be said? Also reason sites are doing that is because they're coded with webkit and not trident which is what IE has used since forever. I can do just as much in the Facebook app as any iOS or android user can now. Shut your trap

ramrac says:

You know that? See, you can't talk like it's a simple fact or up to MS, that is entirely up to the App developers, and I doubt they will support two completely differently coded Apps, especially when the userbase for their NT Apps will surpass the userbase of WP-Apps already on December 26th.
Funny, google displays properly in IE9 on desktop...you obviously didn't understand what I wrote. When I set my browser to desktop mode, google displays a 2006 pda/winmobile/symbianS60 webpage, the rest of the internet looks fine. To get a properly useful google page I need to set my browser to mobile mode, but then most of the rest of the internet thinks that I'm surfing from a Windows Mobile pda with a stylus...I mean...WP came out in 2010...it's 2012 now, and neither Google nor the rest of the internet has bothered to incorporate something to recognize Windows Phone as a modern touch-schmartphone instead of Windows Mobile. All I meant to say was that the google page when I set my browser to desktop mode is bs.

WP_elcapo says:

Once again, that's the fault of the web devs and not MS. What is so hard to understand about that?

gusterbo says:

+1000000000 :)

gillaz1976 says:

Why is the argument still going on? If MS intend to do more than a start screen for WP7.8 then they will let us know. Clearly they are not sure exactly what they intend to give 7.8 or we would know. Plus MS and Nokia have already said that Nokia will bring out apps for 7.8. So shouldn't we presume that whatever MS doesn't give 7.8 that Nokia will? Can't believe people are crying about it. Its like the world is going to end. More important things on the world. Jeez. I've got a lumia 900 on 18 month contract and I'll be able to upgrade after 12 months next may. The top of the range Nokia WP8 won't be out straightaway, they will put the lesser phones out first. On that basis, if the top nokia phone I want comes out early next year I won't have long to wait

I know, I'm getting really sick of article after article after article rehashing this debate. I know it's a slow news period right now, but my goodness let it go. Stick with doing app and game reviews and interviews until there's something useful to report about this. Don't get me wrong, I want to know more about it, but we already know all we're going to know about this until Microsoft announces more. The horse is dead... stop beating it!

gillaz1976 says:

Well said. Im bored with the same whinging all the time

You're not the majority though and clearly by the response here, people are interested in this.

"Slows news" has nothing to do with it and that Channel 9 comment is new. It's our job to distil information and summarize for people, you're free of course to not comment on articles that you are bored with or just skip reading them ;-)

Got an update for Facebook. Its Nov ver 2.3.

1101x10 says:

Keep seeing the same false arguments - it's like buying a car - that doen't get updated, Android phones rarely get updated etc. The diference here is that even if your Android phone does not get updated you will still most likely be able to run new apps developed for it next year as it will still be running the same Kernel design. This is the second time MS have screwed their customers with a completely new phone OS. If you are in the US then maybe this does not hit you so hard as you will probably have received a heavily subsidised phone,  unlike Intenational customers. There's not much they can do now to improve WP7. The biggest mistake they made was not allowing apps to use native code.
 

WP_elcapo says:

Older Android phones cannot run the newer apps. Get your facts straight before posting

1101x10 says:

Let me give you an example "Angry Birds Space" Released in March - Requires Android 1.6 and up. (1.6 is really old, goes back to 2009). 

Bee Mon says:

That's because its written to run on Android 1.6 because there's a billion clueless asians with cheap old android phones that loves angry birds. This is their main market. We have angry bird shoes, angry bird t-shirts, angry bird key chains, angry bird plushies, angry bird pillows etc. etc. etc. Most asians (except me) are crazy about angry birds. Don't ask me why, I have no effing idea. I hate angry birds.

WP_elcapo says:

Let's not be stereotypical

eshy says:

If the developers choose to target an older framework to get the biggest market size, older Android devices can still run the app. If they chose to target 4.0, no older phone will be able to run it. How is that different from WP 7.5/8? If I target 7.5 for my app, it will run on both existing devices and new ones. It's just the same.

WP_elcapo says:

My friend couldn't even play words by post on her HTC aria from 2010

zacman says:

Of you don't use any newer API features of a new version then the Android app will run. Like many new apps that require 2.x or higher or even only 1.6 or higher. Just like there are apps out there that run on WinXP or even Win2k or higher. The problem with WP8 is that the whole framework changes. So even if you only use all the features available within Mango within your WP8 native app, it still won't run on WP7 devices because the whole framework isn't supported. It's like trying to run a Windows app in DOS. And WP7 is the DOS here.

Bee Mon says:

Wrong. WP8 has a new platform but it also supports the existing WP7 platform. If you only use all the features available in Mango then you do not need to develop a native WP8 app. You can set WP7 as the build target and the result app will run on both WP8 and WP7. Same as targeting a earlier version of Android. Stop spreading false information on things you know nothing about.

1101x10 says:

It's not that simple. WP8 is a new development framework, it does not have WP7 as a build target. WP7 apps are built for two environments - Silverlight which is now dead and XNA which has a big ? over it but is most likely dead too. WP8 apps will be developed with WinRT for general apps and C++/DirectX for games.

Bee Mon says:

You are not making sense. People do not develop applications on a WP8 device, they develop applications on a Windows PC. The development environment a.k.a Visual Studio on the Windows PC will provide the build targets for both WP8 and WP7. Since WP8 can run WP7 applications, it means that it still supports Silverlight and XNA internally so how it is dead? You just cannot use Silverlight and XNA when your project targets WP8. But if you are only using features available in Mango, you can target WP7 instead of WP8 but your resulting application will still run on WP8. How is that not simple?

1101x10 says:

Sorry, but you don't know what you are talking about. Visual studio 2012 won't support both WP OS's. You'll only be able to develop WP7 apps using the existing tools. Two distinct frameworks and development environments. Its also not clear how WP8 will support legacy apps, it might not be running Silverlight and XNA internally - there was talk about all the existing apps being recompiled into machine code that will run on WP8.

Bee Mon says:

Do not add additional terms to form your arguments. Where in your prior comment or mine was Visual Studio 2012 part of the equation. Visual Studio 2012 is a development environment, it is not a runtime environment. It runs on a Windows PC, not WinRT. Regardless of whether you're building for WP8 or WP7, you will still need to go through a Phone emulator to run the application so technically Visual Studio 2012 does not support both WP8 and WP7 OSes at all. A build target is just a configuration file to execute the correct compilers and build tools as long as the toolchain can be installed and run on the same OS. Any sophisticated development environment can be customized to build to any kind of target. The fact is Windows Phone 7.11 SDK and Windows Phone 7 emulator runs on Windows 8. And another fact is Microsoft has confirmed than WP7 Silverlight + XNA applications can run on WP8 devices regardless of you trying to cloud that fact with innuendo that they have to employ some kind of dark magic inside to make it work. WTF do I care how they do it but you cannot dispute the fact that WP8 devices can run WP7 applications. And even if Microsoft goes out on the limb to stop us from building a WP7 project from VS2012, how difficult is it to do it from VS2010? In fact on my machine I have a variety of development environments, Flash+FlashDevelop, Java + Netbeans + Eclipse, MonoDevelop, VS2005, VS2008, and VS2010. On my notebook I have Windows 8 Preview + VS2011 Beta + VS2010 Express with WinPhone SDK 7.11. Its not so simple? Give me a break. Please stop with all this doom and gloom talk to try to scare people off the platform. You all are no better than those people on the street with "The End of the World is Nigh" hanging from their necks.
BTW anyone else believes the crap that these guys are dishing out please click on the following link. Windows Phone 8 developers tools will support the building of WP7 applications. This includes both Silverlight and XNA applications. The article does not specific the version of Visual Studio. So its either VS2010 can run Windows Phone 8 developer tools or only VS2012 can run the tools. Either way, you can select your build target to either WP8 and WP7. So lets put a stop to all these lies.
http://forums.create.msdn.com/forums/t/106054.aspx

eshy says:

Games? that's a small part of the marketplace. C# would still be used for most apps. it's easier and most apps don't require high performance. C++ for apps would still use XAML. Silverlight is a subset of WPF and it used a subset of an older .Net framework. the way it was used in WP7 was really a hack because they couldn't get the full WPF working on the phone.

Verkunder says:

As always Daniel, the voice of reason.

addicusbrown says:

It would be nice to have the unlocked storage card feature in 7.8 along with integrated Skype, IE10, Bluetooth transfer and file explorer ability.

theefman says:

This again?

Quis0822 says:

Anyone else think Joe balfiore

Quis0822 says:

Looks like Chris angel lol

AiR DEGETA says:

At first sight I wasn't too excited about the new Start Screen either, but then I thought about the possibilities & new themes to really my start screen "MINE". Obviously just getting the new Start Screen be kinda disappointing, but it's still better than nothing.

wizmagister says:

The version is 7.8. It's .3 more than Mango. It should be more than just the start. I'm sure there will a bunch of little other stuff too. Like IE10 ...

Maybe if you're lucky you'll get 3-tenths of what you're hoping for... :)

TechAbstract says:

There is still a 7.9 after the 7.8

eshy says:

right, and 7.95 too. No one said they will release more updates for the 7.x platform. They said firmware would be released if fixes are needed. and they'll probably release fixes themselves, but don't think a bigger update would still come

eshy says:

it's obvious why they chose 7.8, it's to confuse less aware current owners...

How about screw the start screen concerns and start allowing my to IP my own damn device?! Amazingly idiotic considering I can assign IPs to half of my kids toys

Really? THIS is your big concern? You can't just use DHCP like the rest of the world? I'm glad that your life is so easy that this is the biggest issue you have.

WP_elcapo says:

Jaja get em.

DaSchnee says:

As I said in an earlier post, they need to implement a tool to backup all game progress to move them to a WP8 device

CJ Thunder says:

Yep, and app settings and passwords but if apps are going to be rewritten I wonder how well that would work.

maxurbn says:

We need more "mainstream" apps, stop whining abt 7.8...

Hiiiiiiiii says:

Daniel,
Since you claim that you saw WP8, which is false, why do you keep lying?
http://www.wpcentral.com/supposed-leaked-screenshots-windows-phone-8-apollo-appear-show-skype-and-lenses
- Fake, home screen is different in WP8
- I'm going to guess you haven't actually seen WP8 then.
Yet, home screen in that post DOES have negative space and arrow while you claimed it's from WP8
Just stop speculating. Never trusting anything from you again

lol, then go read your trusted source Insideris and their claims on "neon".

Lenses are 100% accurate. Microsoft by their own admission has not shown most of the consumer features for WP8 yet. 

Look at my pre-Summit article here. I reveal Wallet, Skype integration and the use of Nokia maps. All accurate. Then there are the screen resolutions--got them all including the 4th one dropped before the Summit. There's also more in this article which has things not yet revealed by MS. Or how I mentioned the different tile sizes, all before they were shown publicly. 

My accuracy has been 100% on those, so say what you will be no one has revealed as much as we have. I have nothing to prove to you and you are more than free to go elsewhere for your news.

+HELL YEAH!! ;)

dbgman says:

Watch the developers video. They said that was not the only thing they that was coming.

schlubadub says:

Let's not kid ourselves, a LOT of the "core functionality" is in actually in separate apps and has very little to do with the underlying OS. Calendar is an app, Xbox Live Hub is an app, People Hub is an app etc. I don't see why they can't add features to these apps without needing a full update to WP8. For example, is it really that hard to add a "week view" to the Calendar (instead of only by month)? Or a separate volume control for ring-tone/alarm/music? Or allowing me to control the brightness from an app or tile? I'm sure there are many other tweaks that can be done to existing functionality that don't require an overhaul to WP8.
FYI I'm in the "I don't really care" camp as far as WP7 goes - I plan on upgrading to a WP8 device as soon as I can, as I can't stand only having a tiny 16 GB storage. But I reckon that existing WP7 users should get more features than just the homescreen update.
I do realise that they are updating the whole API to WP8 which determines what functionality the apps can hook into, but surely there's some bones they can throw to WP7.

TheMofaDe says:

I agree with you and i have a small 8gb lumia 710 wouldn't of hurt if they could of made a sd card slot for this phone but im going to wait to 2013 to upgrade to win8 I wanna see what all they have to offer and whether big name apps come to win8

tallgeese says:

7.5 users will get the new start screen and OTA updates was my understanding. And I believe their was a 3rd feature; just features to keep 1st & 2nd gen phones fresh.

Why theorize on what Microsoft isn't saying about the 7.8 update.

The 7.5 phones are still great phones!

Pay up for WP8 or shut up.

goldenpipes says:

On xda there is a post about an hd7 running wp8, so I'm sure at some point when wp8 roms show up they will flash on to Gen 1 and 1.5 devices. The hardware is good enough, the problem would be getting the current drivers to work with the new kernel (might now be possible) but new hardware drivers might work on the old devices anyways. Only time will tell. I'm going to be getting a windows 8 phone as son as my contract allows me to lol.

amduggie says:

Who cares about a new start screen? Give me an MS office suite that works like the old WindowsMobile6 used to. I am not asking for anything better than WM6, just something remotely comparable that is actually of some use.

Ewass says:

I think we will get more than a start screen. I think that 7.8 is released afther 8 to hide some new features that kom in windows 8 and already are present in 7.8

For me, and the other three in our family that have 7.5 phones, we're not upset about not having an 8 upgrade on our phone. Having 7.8 look is fine. The phones are satisfying our needs at present and will for the contract duration of 1.5 years - as long as our meager app requirements are maintained on this platform for that duration.

So, in that regard, I would suggest that Microsoft's added contribution to developers would be to make it as easy as possible to build apps that can be used on the 7.5 and 8 platforms. Whether this is build time or emulator or some combination of both, that's a way for Microsoft to best ensure that the 7.5 platform remains relevant for current purchased devices. Possibly also incenting app developers to release and maintain apps for both platforms would make sense too.

Is it just me or do the icons on the live tiles look extremely small compared to Windows Phone 7.5? Look at the Medium-sized "Messages" icon. It looks really small.

schlubadub says:

The icons are the same size, the issue is that removing the right gutter means that the tiles need to increase in size to fit properly... they are already pretty huge on 4.3" screens, so they're going to look quite silly :P
I think I'll end up with rows of the smallest icons... making it look very much like iPhone and Android :(

mrdeezus says:

How about everything but the hardware dependent features?

dirtbound says:

That's basically what the @NokiaUS twitter account stated... That we would get all Non-Hardware dependent features.

dirtbound says:

Here's my play:

A: Buy a Nexus 7 to get me through to Surface release.

B: Buy a Surface RT to get me through the end of my contract and so I can get my Windows 8 RT on.

C: Once my contract is up 2nd Gen WP8 devices should be hitting the market and I can upgrade.

Internet Sharing on my 900 will provide data to the tablets and help bridge the gap to end of contract.

schlubadub says:

You would buy a Nexus 7 to last only 3 months until Surface is released?

DavidinCT says:

Sorry Danel. Posting this was a bad idea. I know your saying "Maybe" but, your giving everyone who THINK they should have more with 7.8 false hope.
 
I go on these fourms here and XDA and COUNTLESS people THINK AND EXPECT they should get more feautres with 7.8, your just giving them more fuel. A dream that could die and leave them really disapointed.
 
Microsoft has PULBICLY statated that you will get the start menu update and nothing else. No one has sand anything else. Unless Microsoft releases info at the next press statement (where they talk about features for WP8), I would not want to lead anyone to THINK they are getting more than they are at this point.
 
Slow press day I guess ????

And I disagree with you 100% and really dislike your use of "slow press day I guess ??". No need to insult me just because you disagree with my article. I find it disgusting how many of you resort to such tactics when you have nothing substantial to say. You've lost my respect for taking such a cheap shot.

Regarding giving false hope, as we've demonstrated Microsoft has had ample opportunity (both in personal communications and public statements) to say that 7.8 is only the Start screen and there is nothing else coming. They have not. Even Lieberman did not take such a position a few days ago.

Here's another example from Microsoft's Ben Lower: ""the only thing we said today about 7.8 is new start screen. there will be more."

C'mon, you really think that sounds the same as "nothing else"? Microsoft has not finalized 7.8, that's the truth and that's all we are saying.

procen says:

Now I know why your blood pressure is up lately. :-P
 

lol, indeed. Dave's a good guy I'm just not sure why he felt the need to ridicule us for writing this story.

I blame it on the Online disinhibition effect. It's becoming more common here at WPC as we grow and gain new people outside the normal crowd.

procen says:

I feel sorry for you, Daniel. Some of the people here takes their anger towards you and what you write.Peace!

DavidinCT says:

Daniel,
 
Ok, your right, the "Slow press day" was a little out of line, sorry about that. You dont deserve that. I read here a lot and have a lot of respect for you, that really was WAY OUT OF LINE.
 
I watched the summit 2 times and the 7.8 annoucement 6 times to make sure I didn't miss a key word. This was followed up by Joe Belfiore's blog post. How I read this is, 7.8 is just a start menu update and you will get new "apps" when 7.8 comes out. Feaures would be given via some Apps. Nothing more has been clearly said.
 
When it comes to new news on this subject and been watching Microsoft news for many, many years(I'm a Windows Systems admin, been running Windows from 3.0 and PocketPC from 1.0) now, there are very few people you should trust when it comes to statements being true and Joe is one of them. Besides directly from Microsoft anything else should be filed as rumor.
 
I also saw this post after reading the fourm threads here and XDA. I still feel that your giving some people false hope. People are expecting features that Microsoft has not public said anything about. People are EXPECTING more, and this just gives them fuel for it. Till Microsoft PUBLICLY says you are getting "X" feature on 7.8, it's just the start menu.
 
With that being said, I do hope something does come more on 7.8 and honesly feel if they are goig to give us this, why not give a little more to add some new life to 7.5 devices. I also know they dont have to and they are dropping 7.5 devices and moving on to 8.0 devices, so I am not expecting a whole re-write of the OS.
 
I see you clearly said "Maybe" but, most people in the threads here and XDA dont see it as that.
PS, again, I didn't mean to make a cheap shot...again sorry about that.

CJ Thunder says:

It has to be Xbox Music and Video related as well as getting rid of Zune sync requirement. We love metro and will be right on Windows 8. If our phones don't work with it then...wow.

timwp12 says:

I can't wait for new start screen. They have more features. Also stop complaining at least we are getting a new start screen and it's better than having buy new phone just get new start screen. Look at android or iPhone. If you want a new look you have to buy new Android or iPhone which I say sucks just like the android or iPhone sucks!

Strings78 says:

It NEEDS to have some sort of a notification center! IMO that is one of the things Windows Phone is lacking. And I kinds like the new start screen and I can't wait to try it out on my Arrive!!

There are changes to notifications which MS has not revealed yet. It relates to the Start screen, that's all I'll say for now.

Coperyte says:

I think people are jumping the gun on WP7.8. They haven't announced most new features for WP8 so of course anything else is being kept under wraps until the big feature reveal. They're taking a play from Apple's book just like with the surface and I'm glad. When they announced Mango's 500+ features, Apple and Google had time to react and incorporate some of them before or right after mango hit. It was a slap in the face. Xbox music, new multitasking card features, new people hub, messaging & email features, picture hub, any possible new notification hub, map specifics (besides turn-by-turn) and more. There is so much to announce and tipping their hand on WP7.8 would tip their hand on WP8. So keep ur panties on people.

Roger Huston says:

Hello,
I hope that MS will push for the 7.8 update be released a few weeks before the actual 8.0 phones are released.  What better group than the existing 7.5 installed base to evangalize the new start screen features to all their friends to drive up the buzz?
Of course, I'm sure that the MS Marketing department will jump in do what they do best, and push for the 7.8 release to go out well after the 8.0 launch. They probably figure that they will get more sales that way as in 7.5 users wanting the new features and don't want to wait for the 7.8 update.
Its ashame too, Windows 8 is truely a big picture launch, bringing together MS dominant ecosystems (business and gaming) into a unified platform, but I'm sure some yahoo in the marketing department will take their eyes off the big picture and push for short term gains above the long term strategy, after all, it is the MS way.
- Roger

mrdeezus says:

Its simple reasoning....they want you to upgrade to a new handset. After WP8 is released, 7.8 will have more than start screen ,I guarantee it.

I think what Microsoft is doing is saying they are only give the start screen,so if they  cant do more no harm .If they do more then they look good