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81

WP7s Apps: No Sideloading, (virtually) no background multitasking

 

We've confirmed what Sascha Segan reported earlier: Windows Phone 7 Series is leaving a lot of power-user functionality by the wayside in the name of stability and battery life, to wit:

  • "True" multitasking. 3rd party apps simply can't run in the background - the only crack in this policy is that some apps will be able to take advantage of the built-in hub services to run - the touchstone case is Pandora in the Music Hub but Microsoft also mentioned photo sync a few times.
  • Sideloading. The only way for consumers to get apps on wp7s is to get them through marketplace. The only exceptions: developers, developers releasing beta versions to a limited number of testers, and enterprise apps distributed within a corporation.
  • Removable storage

Microsoft maintains that they're just balancing user demands and there's no doubt that nixing the above simplifies and improves the overall experience for many - if not most - users.

To make up for the lack of multitasking, Microsoft is following in Apple's shoes by offering push notification as a substitute for the vast majority of apps. One problem: although they're not interruptive like on the iPhone, they just appear and go away and there's no unified place to view all notifications.

To make up for the lack of sideloading, Microsoft has promised radical transparency for the app submission process to their marketplace. Good news: Microsoft has no problem with competing web browsers, email clients, map clients, and the like. They're all welcome. The bummer is that it doesn't appear right now that you'll be able to change your 'default' apps - for example, tapping on an address in email wouldn't be able to be set to open Google Maps. 

To make up for the lack of removable storage, well, we have the excellent Zune client. However it looks like there won't be a common file area that all apps can access - each app will have access to its own file storage area and be able to use high level APIs to access stuff like music, photos, and the like. So in addition to there not being removable storage, it doesn't look like you'll even be able to access the on-board storage directly as a USB disk. It all goes through the Zune client.

That's a lot of doom and gloom above, so we'll back off a bit and say that the apps really do look great and nobody can accuse Microsoft of only going halfway towards their vision of rethinking what a mobile platform and mobile apps should be. Until the phones are out there we won't really know how much the above limitations will chafe.

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Reader comments

WP7s Apps: No Sideloading, (virtually) no background multitasking

81 Comments

"Microsoft is following in Apple's shoes"

holy apple crap you can say that again!!! no removeable storage? wasnt this one of the MAIN selling points in every verizon DROID advertisement! you know the phone that has android flying off the market and expanding faster than any other OS

ever since that little nerd was at MWC yelling "the phone isnt a PC, phone not PC" i have been dissapointed. then they tell me to wait for MIX for more dissapointment. this is an IPHONE, someone tell me how this is offering anything different or better than what is already on the market???

steve ballmer should have just got up on stage in his bath robe and said,"here you assholes go, its the iZUNE!" and then went back to sleep.

bassically what your getting with this phone is, twitter, crappy over priced games, and a zune. TEENY BOPPERS HERE YA GO!!!!

P.S RANT:

and if these "prototypes" that keep popping up are any indication that these are the style phones they are offering...YUCK. super wide but skinny screen? huge blank spot for 3 keys? all fat square ugly and bulky? come on!!

like the picture that is posted on this article. if thats what they are offering, they are drunk!!

Screw this. I'm getting an Android phone as soon as there is one with a keyboard. What a disappointment.

I'm pretty sure he meant front-qwerty, like the Kogan handset that never saw the light of day. I hate slide-out keybords myself, and I'm surprised at the lack of even a single FQ device in the Android space, considering the popularity of the Blackberry Curve and Bold.

"Screw this. I'm getting an Android phone as soon as there is one with a keyboard. What a disappointment."

I've been one of WinMo's staunchest defenders these past years. And now I'm afraid I agreed with the above. Ouch.

Well Looks like MS just put the last nail in their own coffin. No removable Storage. Are they out of their minds. Talk about making it an easy chose, the Icrap, MScrap, or android ( not ATT branded sens they are blocking app installation) It is a sad day indeed

yeah apple sure put a nail in their coffin, I mean, no removable storage, no multi-tasking!? they must be insane! the iphone isn't going to sell a single uni-... oh wait.

The iPhone's success is actually all the more reason why WP7S needs features that set it apart. The reason the iPhone doesn't have 100% of the smartphone market is precisely because of users who need physical keyboards, removable storage, removable batteries, multitasking, etc. At this point, WP7S appears to be targeted to would-be iPhone owners stuck on carriers other than AT&T.

Agreed; though I still think we should add a little "wait and see" to our thinking.

I would love to Move To WP7S. The lost of all those thing does suck. But if the company I work said we Support WP7S tomorrow then I'll pick one up anyway. But that's just me if you guys don't like that have fun with Android.

Wow, it really is NOT windows mobile anymore. Talk about throwing out everything that set WM apart.

Though I am sure the OS will be cool and have lots of great things about it, they seem to not even take what they learned from years of WM and apply it to WP7. weird. It's like there is no heritage here.

I get less interested the more news I hear. oh well.

You guys should really start questioning Microsoft about the status of WM 6.5 and how much support they plan on providing it because no one who was a true windows mobile fan is going to buy this crap. We want our phones to be pocket pcs. This is going to fail bigtime.

I'm a true windows mobile fan. I plan on buying it. There goes your theory. All of you so called "true" windows mobile fans seem to be almost non-existent a month ago. Now Microsoft is planning to change this mobile OS and all of a sudden you're the biggest 6.5 fan ever, it's perfect, it's awesome, blah blah blah. I don't buy the "true fan" claim one bit.

And then Adobe is going to deny WM 6.5 devices flash support for this crap. Microsoft really screwed this thing up. I can't believe they are this stupid.

No removable storage is the only thing that bothers me but then again the Zune doesn't have it either. Really I'm willing to sacrifice this feature because it should mean that OEM's will quit dragging ass and give us higher internal storage with our phones. The rest of the things mentioned are not a big deal. 99.9% of you do not have a legit need for "true" multitasking and at the end of the day it's really just a buzz word. As far as the sideloading goes, that'll be hacked soon but also Microsoft said down the line they'll open it up a bit. That gives the impression that somewhere down the line you'll be able to load apps from other places. Really though I don't care about that. I'd prefer they all be in one place. So at the end of the day the only real negative is the lack of removable storage and even then it's a short term negative for the sake of a future positive. It's sad how disloyal some of you are. You expect Microsoft to do everything you want them to do and be "loyal" to you but the minute they do something you don't like you're jumping ship. Pathetic.

It's too hard to understand because there already is a phone that has most of the same features/restrictions... it's called an iPhone and was released 3 years ago.

There's no good reason for MS to release a copycat phone 3 years after the original. And if you think that the average person cares that the screen resolution is 800x480 vs. 640x240 on a 3" screen, or that it has a user replaceable battery, then you don't understand the average consumer either.

Yep.. point to the Zune... wow, what a great consumer success that was compared to the iPod. MS really took over the portable media player market with the ZuneHD... parrotting most of the features that the iPod Touch had released 2 years previously, and adding features that nobody really cared about... HD radio, really, that's all MS could come up with after 2 years? Where are the game apps comparable to the ancient iPod Touch? What about bluetooth headphone support?

At least it'll look like WP7 will have some decent games, but wait, MS effed over all the ZuneHD customers by publicly stating that those games will not be supported on the ZuneHD... too bad, ZuneHD users, you lose for trusting MS would support your device like Apple has supported the iPod Touch.

Heck, this is coming from one of the most un-apple people out there. I have owned ZERO apple products in my life and have gone out of my way to ensure that the devices I've owned media player and smart phone wise support user replaceable memory cards so I'm not locked into upgrading the whole damn unit when I want more storage than the "overlords" deemed proper for me, or paying out the the nose for 16 GB vs. 8. I've owned MS PocketPC/PalmTop Devices since the early 00's and the lack of originality of MS' team is just way too disappointing. I was hoping for the uniformity of iPhones apps with WP7, but with a little more flexibility for experts to upgrade if they wanted to do it themselves... not a carbon copy of the 3 year old iPhone when it comes to lack of consumer upgradeability... (oh well, other than the user replaceable battery that is... woo hoo ;-)

Microsoft is trying to out Apple, Apple. With their past failure with the ZuneHD, unless MS has learned their lesson and releases an app store in Dec. that has THOUSANDS of apps to rival the entrenched competition, then, they'll just have another ZuneHD on their hands with WP7. WP7 is better in some ways, than the competition, worse in others, but basically the same, so the general public will just sigh, and buy another Apple device because MS isn't cool/hip/mod/da bomb/whatever, I'm ancient, so don't know what word to use. That's what people here don't understand... why is MS releasing something that's so blatantly just a copy of the iPhone that was released 3 years ago with so few improved features and the same level of user restrictions (we were hoping that MS would forego some of the restrictions that would reduce revenue a bit, but allow expert users to tweak a bit more than on an iPhone.)

Well put.

...and I'm still torn on if I think it is better looking or not than the iPhone... Which I think still isn't as slick as 6.5.3...

They may as well have just quit the mobile phone market at this point for all I care.

The cause of the ZuneHD's poor performance was because of non-existent advertising, plain and simple. The iPod was not the first mp3 player on the market and the average consumer didn't even know mp3 players existed until apple made theirs and marketed it.

Who says I think the average consumer will care about resolution? I've said from the beginning, all they want is something that looks pretty. Doesn't even need to be functional, so long as it looks good.

Much like the PC realm, MS seems to be going for the middle ground with Macs being the most tightly constrained, Linux the wide open west, and Microsoft somewhere in between.

To move the analogy to phones, you have iPhone platform being the most locked down, Android being wide open, and WP7S trying to be the somewhere between them.

There are problems with all the approaches. Apple is restrictive and we have to wait an entire calendar year for new hardware. Android has a splintered user base across multiple versions of the OS (sounds like WinMo). We will see how WP7S balances the desire for a consistent experience across devices with individual freedom.

Only problem with your statement is the fact that you said "Android being wide open" when it is actually locked down more so than 6.5.

Otherwise, I agree.

MOST of the market will never do that.

I shouldn't HAVE to hack my phone to do what I want.

I can 'root' my Windows 6.5 phone to run Android if I desire. I'm sure the WP7S phones will get 'rooted' by clever people too.

I agree with that. I'm okay with the 16 gigs on my Zune hd, and no side loading of apps isn't necessarily bad. It's just different. I'm okay with downloading and installing an app with a few clicks in zune software. It was okay for me with my zune hd and it'll be fine no with wp7s. Now that I've thought about it, I never really liked going to websites, waiting 1 minute to download some .cab from rapidshare, dragging it to my phone, then finally tapping on it to install. Like microsoft said, the phone is just not a pc, and it appears many of you have gotten too used to windows mobile's failed vision of a mobile version of windows.

I'm not sure how "loyalty" enters into anything. Microsoft is a company, not a spouse; and in a free market, they can choose to offer a compelling product or not.

The subtext of every point you've made is, "It's really not that bad." I disagree, but even if I didn't, you're not really making an argument in favor of WP7S. You may as well be recommending the iPhone.

Aside of the lack of removable storage, third-party app distribution, and multitasking, it's hard for me to see why a developer would choose WP7S over more established platforms if the former is either more restrictive or lacks a customer base. In one fell swoop, MS has just handed over the enterprise market to RIM, the consumer market to Apple, and the geek market to Google.

At this point I'll be switching over to the more open environment of Android. I'm sure that most consumers don't take issue with walled gardens, but for them, Blackberries and iPhones are probably more attractive options.

No company will move to this platform if they can't develop their own apps for it. And I mean industry type stuff used in the workplace or out on the field. Not the consumer fluff.

Hello Android. Here I come.

Umm... someone didn't read the article

"...and enterprise apps distributed within a corporation."

Have you ever used the 'enterprise app' route? when cab files on a locked down device works easily?

This isn't Windows Mobile anymore - it's turning into Zune phone.

Who's talking about .cab files? Since all the WP7s developement for apps is on Silverlight all you do is push out the app install from a enterprise server to the phones, done.

It's no different from having a web app install to your PC or running it through your browser with silverlight.

You make it sound like it's going to be something so hard when it's really so simple.

No multitasking? - Okay I understand the balancing needs for performance. But no multitasking for IM, Email Clients, etc? What a strange move.

No sideloading? Because MS app approval process will be really transparent? Really? I mean Really...

No removal able storage? No access to the space via usb? How many hardware makers are going to maintain several phone models with 8, 16, and 32 gig? My guess none. You'll have one with a Samsung with 8 gig or an LG with 16 gig.

Is it Windows Phone or Windows Pwn?

Email does get multitasking. AS has been said there are ways to multitask your apps for specific things, like music if you connect through the hub API's. Email is one, and there is probably other stuff/ways. Go download the tools and find out more.

At this point, my understanding is that the native email client will use push notification. So why would 3rd party clients any different? And I would love to review the tool, however I'm afraid it might conflict with my Visual Studio 2005 installation.

Uhhhhhhhhhhh........ NOT HAPPY.

WOW, unless XDA really picks this new OS apart and changes it for the better, I think my years as a Windows Phone/Mobile user are over. They've gone waaaay overboard with the control thing, just like Apple does. Until I heard this news I was actually looking forward to the new WP7. Now... like everyone else I think I'm heading for Android next.

I already use Google for search, Google Apps for email, calendar, online office suite, and have been going back and forth between MS and Google for these things so it's quite a loss for MS here.

Good thing I'm not the only one who thought this was a disaster from the start. Nice try Microsoft, try again. I think we should revert to Windows Mobile 6.0, and go from there. Stop bulking up my windows and adding useless shadows and improve what sucks not what doesn't. /rant

i think i'll stick to my trusted 6.1 or move on to Android. never thought MS would force me to do this. No multitasking? What a shame.

This is getting stranger by the minute. Microsoft is morphing into another Apple walled garden and Android is replacing Microsoft as the customizable tweaker's platform. I wonder what else is in the works for WinMo - batteries that are not user replaceable? More DRM? A PC client as restrictive as iTunes? I suspect Microsoft does not like the idea of users flashing new ROMs and/or installing apps from an SD card so they are ditching SD card slots. It's like buying a car with the hood welded shut. I'm going to really follow the current efforts to flash Imagios (like mine) as Android devices (already partially successful).

Well there you go Microsoft, you do so amazingly well listening to the people when it came to Windows 7, and are doing expceptionally well with the Office 2010 beta... But really?

You had to go this route with our Windows Mobile platform?

You couldn't do this in stages? Bringing out the core OS, and allowing for my SD cards and self made cabs, then in the next update pushing a bit more in this direction to maybe get us use to it?

You had to just hit us with the baseball bat right away?

What does this offer that the iPhone doesn't/won't? And there are many more apps and gizmos out for it. Why wouldn't I just get it if we're talking about the same level of productivity and customization?

All good things must come to an end I guess. I for one will not be entertaining a purchase of WP7 because not only does it not do what I want, but after such a slap in the face from MS as this, I won't contribute to WP7's growth.

I'm sure I'll get some flamers saying I'm whining, or why don't I love an OS that everyone else is drooling over, but I won't bother to respond. Why? Because they are people who didn't get why we loved our 6.1 devices, and dealt with a dated interface when there were so many "prettier" devices out. Fine, if you like it, go get it! I won't stop you, or tell you not to, as I think it will be a fine OS for the soccer mom, and college kid.

Thanks for breaking my heart MS... Now I'll await my HD2 on T-Mobile since that obviously will be probably the last of the great WinMo phones.

Time to relax a little.

I think it is on this site somewhere that MS spoke about WM being the business line and WP7 the consumer line. So they are doing exactly what you would expect and customizing WP7 to its market.

The real question is what the update path on WM 6.5 will be? I had heard that it was supposed to br bbrought up to WP7 as far as the Office applications and possibly the UI went.

can someone explain technically what advantage internal storage has over removable storage?

or, what is the technical reason to avoid using removable storage?

is it just read/write speed?

thanks.

Well one theory is , so many users are not very techsavy and after installing their apps to the storage card might one day decide to get a new storage card .. and all of a sudden find all of their apps missing and all of a sudden blame MS of creating a faulty product.

Put it all on the phone , eliminate the issue. there there is the read / write speed. Issues that can cause memory card to be corrupted, yada,yada, ....

Life Moves fast. Don't miss a thing!

webOS Internals
Smart. Open. Phones.

Without multitasking...It's just like the rest!

We have several application require background operation for data collection and tracking.

HUGH Disappontment!

No amount of free apps or multi-tasking can get me to use Google's shitty ass mobile OS. Another thing, on of the biggest complaints about the old Winmo and android is it's laggy-ness, I am glad that they are getting rid of it, I'm so tired of rebooting my phone because a few badly written rogue apps are taking up all the system resources.

Man... I never believed this day would come. I feel like a good friend is dying.

Seriously disappointed in MS. If most of this holds true, I'll wave goodbye to WM and hello to Android. I really do not like Apple's business model. It's why I don't own anything Apple. In the mobile industry it appears M$ is just trying to clone Apple's money making formula. It's like when they first started getting infatuated with Google and their ad revenue. I really had a lot of hope for WM7 being innovative, but it seems to be everything I don't like about the iPhone.

So disappointing considering with the HD2 MS seemed to be on the right path. Then again I guess the HD2 is HTC's design and not MS.

When people have asked me why I chose a WM phone over an iPhone, I just say "The iPhone is like an appliance. I don't want an appliance - I want a pocket computer.". And it would seem with WM7, Microsoft is making an appliance. Yuck. The idea of switching to Android gets more attractive by the day.

Fail. I swear Microsoft just copied the iPhone's feature set and put on a different front-end. "Redmond, Start Your Photocopiers"!

Push notifications instead of multi-tasking? In theory that works. In practice it sucks.

Did they not try using IM programs on the iPhone? It is so bad it makes me want to cry. Everytime you get an IM using the push notification service, it takes *FOREVER* for the IM app to load.

No sideloading is just stupid. I can't wait to see how truly "transparent" their approval process is.

I'll probably get flamed for this, but I can take it. Palm's webOS has all these features standard and then some. Multitasking: The best mobile solution you'll find. Side loading apps: Preware has over 500, compared to Palm's 1700. Not to mention more than 250 system patches. WebOS devices do not have removable storage, but the device has a native USB mode allowing you to move your files around how you please.

I only have showroom Android experience so I can't comment on that, but webOS deserves a look. Especially now that C/C++ code can be integrated with the web technologies that webOS is based on.

This is it for me. I mean take a look at this list:

*No storage cards
*No multi-tasking
*No app sideloading
*No accessible file system

In exchange we get the following:

*Xbox integration (Come on, if I want to play games I will get a Playstation, PC, Nintendo DS or whatever. I'm an adult and do not want to play games in a train on my phone)

*App store that comes with MS censorship (thats something I am willing to pay for)

*Annoying push notifications as a replacement for multi-tasking (I know what applications are running in the backgound on my phone and what they are doing. No need to be notified)

*Fix internal storage (If you take into consideration that the amount of needed storage grows every year that makes a nice argument for updating your phone annually)

I dont think I have to continue. Sorry MS this is crap. There is absolutely no way I am going to pay for such a product. I dont know yet what it will be when my current Xperia X1 breaks but definitely not a Windows Phone 7.

No removeable drive support - Okay, as long as all WP7 device comes with 16GB++

No sideloading? Only install apps from Marketplace? This sucks big time. Not all country have cheap data package...

No custom "default" software? Then why I use Windows? SonyErrisson is more than enough....

No multitaksing? That means I CANNOT listening to music while reading novel during the time I downloading email and RSS feeds from internet? If I cannot do this, byebye Windows.. hello Android...

Some focus must now be paid to getting Android on our current handsets... HD2 and the like. If all that M$ is capable of is a half a$$ copy of OLD apple then whats the point.
Android!

If we had Silverlight and Flash support on WM6.x, then most of us wouldn't care if MS copied Apple's control paradigm for a mass consumer device.

Enterprise and savvy users need love too.

This is ridiculous! No removable storage? No loading of apps other than through Marketplace? No Windows Phone 7 for me! Might as well get an iPhone.

The thing about no removable storage is this - They will charge you a ridiculously high amount of money for the storage. Case in point, Apple charges $100 ($199 for the 16GB 3GS vs $299 for the 32GB 3GS) 16GB of memory, whereas you can purchased a Micro SDHC card under $60 from any local electronics store. This will be the same for WP7 phones.

* No Multitasking (ish)

I can get behind this because, frankly I grow tired of the memory management model in the current Windows Mobile builds. Push notification for IM is, in my opinion, far better than having Windows Live quietly sign out when the device runs low on memory. Critical timeline app (like IM) getting kicked out of memory without so much as a notification is probably my biggest pet peeve with the current Windows Mobile. If Microsoft is going to keep core notifications running all the time (and actually allow developers to make new notification types) I'm good.

* No SD Card.

Gotta be honest here - every WinMo device I've owned (a lot of em) I tend to go out buy the biggest memory card on the market, install it and forget there is even a memory slot. Having the card 'welded in' doesn't make much of a difference to me, as long as we don't get the OEMs trying to club us over the head for the internal storage - but remember unlike the iPhone there are lots of OEMs that will be competing for your purchase, and that should foster competition and lower hardware costs vs the Apple pricing model of "pay this or go without, we're the only guys with iPhones bruhahahahahahaha"

* No Sideloading

Not really a show stopper either, as long as the Microsoft Marketplace is transparent. I've been crying for years about how many apps are available for WinMo, and how we were ahead of iPhone for a very long time but when it's scattered across 10 different marketplaces, and 1000 websites it's hard to quantify. Other nice side benefit is that Microsoft should be screening out the malware and don't kid yourself - mobile phones are the next frontier for malware and botnets. It should scare the hell out of you to think what some of the programmers in less trusted sites are capable of doing on a WinMo phone via sideloading. Things like generating 100000 premium SMS messages running in the background without notifying you.

Option B here is that "developers" exception. The open source crowd can still play - the development tools are free - it just means you get the software as a Visual Studio Express project instead of as a CAB file. So you tweakers out there, it isn't really that big a deal. The "I just wanna cab" people, get it from the Marketplace - vetted by MS.

* No access to internal filesystem

Yeah, this one bugs me a bit. Will have to see the implementation more - I want to be able to work with data that's not a picture, video, document. There must be a way, or corporate would be kinda displeased.

--

At the moment, I'm still planning to go to WP7S, albeit probably not the first one off the production line. iPhone doesn't appeal to me - and I sure don't want to buy a Mac just to write apps for my phone. Android, I dabble but I really can't say I'm overly impressed with the OS at the moment. WebOS ... seriously anyone think this OS will still be around in Q2 2011?

I suggest everyone takes a look at webOS instead of Android, its a much better experience since I have used Palm's webOS and Adroid's OS and the multitasking and openess of webOS is amazing.

The multitasking on webOS is definitely the best in class, but I returned the Pre after a week. Some of the issues I had, like full copy-and-paste, have apparently been fixed, but I still find the Sprint webOS devices too limited. The lack of removable storage on an 8GB device, and the lack of an onscreen keyboard on the Pre (which should've been dead simple to add), and the lack of wifi and processor speed on the Pixie are simply unacceptable.

Put webOS on hardware like the HD2, or even the TP2 and I'll come over ASAP.

Because T-Mobile coverage is practically none existent in my area, I will not be switching from AT&T for an HTC HD2. However, I may be traveling to Australia later this year. If I go, I will probably pick up an HTC HD2 from Telstra. It will most likely be the last Microsoft phone I ever purchase.

If I do not make the trip to Australia, I will be purchasing a new Apple, possibly even an "4G" if it is released late this summer. The hilarity, according to all the rumors I'm hearing, the Apple "4G" will have a removable battery. If that is true, then I cannot think of anything that WM7 phones will have over the iPhone.

Goodbye, Windows Mobile!

Wow. Thanks. That simplifies my decision-making a lot.

I was a long-time WM user, and by far the platform's best feature was its openness to 3rd-party apps that could replace the crappy functionality of the standard OS. But I gave even that up for the iPhone, which by 2008 offered a much better overall experience.

Now MS is ditching its powerful (but dated & ugly) platform, releasing an entirely new one that by end of 2010 will just duplicate the closed-but-shiny experience of the iPhone 2 years earlier.

As I said, thanks for simplifying things, MS. The only decision left now is between iPhone 4.0, if it supports multi-tasking, or Android.

All this is shocking and does make me angry that they are virtually copying all aspects of the iPhone. Upon further thought, the 8 gigs on my phone is somewhat sufficient so the necessity of a removable card isn't the end of the world. As long as certain necessary things still operate in the background (ie email, music), is multitasking really a deal breaker? No, heck, if anything, it'll ensure my phone is running at optimal speeds. Side loading, still not a deal breaker. I don't mind having everything in one central location, but the fact that you can't have people making apps and distributing them for free definitely sux so thats a partial deal breaker. The one thing I loved about microsoft was not having to sync to an iTunes type of software. So not being able to have access directly to the storage unit might be a deal breaker. I love being able to hook my phone up to my computer and seeing all the files on it and dragging and dropping as I please. I love microsoft but I might have to either check out Android or stay with WinMo 6.5.3. Hopefully Microsoft gets there stuff together...

Nokia N900. Linux, multitasking, sideloading, full hackable, full transparent Skype integration, etc, etc ...

Here's a scenario for mulit-taksing:

While typing up/reading a document while listening to music, at the same time having an app that uses the GPS to monitor your location so that you are a) notified that you should do something in this location, b) the app can send an email, text etc to someone to let them know you arrived (I'm thinking picking someone up from the airport or train station).

That's a sudo-fictitious example. But it's one that's solved with mulit-tasking. Do you really want MS to tell you when and what you will need multi-tasking for?

And that fictitious scenario? Easily handled on Android using an app called Locale.

@gregorypleau
Stop tinkering and write a serious app for Android and I think you'll change your mind. As a fellow developer I'll tell you it's bone-head *easy* to write for Android. Also investigate it's architecture. That's what sent me over the edge. Although I was hoping MS wouldn't be this stupid as I was hoping to port some of my work to WP7.

Android isn't nearly as successful in Canada as Windows Phones and Blackberry are from what I can see. Frankly if I'm targetting Canadians (since I *am* one), I'd switch to Blackberry or iPhone before switching to Android. Of course if I'm writing *serious* apps, I'm writing cross-platform. When I say I'm interested in a WP7s, I'm interested in it as that device I carry around with me and answer my phone calls on.

what makes MS think they can beat apple by doing the EXACT same BS they are doing, and then offering an ugly ass device.

one of the main reasons the apple slaves buy iphones is because its flashy and you dont need a brain to use it.

iPhone 4.0 is going to allow multitasking. Microsoft was stupid enough to peg WP7 to an outgoing version of the iPhone OS. Stupid. There's no reason not to allow multitasking when the phones have such high end specs.

Bring on the Supersonic.

every feature that you people say you want, with the exception of expandable memory, is available right now with webOS from palm. the best true multitasking BY FAR. open platform for you geeks to hack and slash. great multimedia capabilities. great business functionality. an app store which is growing everyday. easy sideloading ability. after using the pre for a while it has by far the best real world user experience of any phone out there with it's amazing notification system and flawless multitasking. why haven't more of you jumped on the bandwagon?? is palm just not 'cool'?

Seriously guys come on. Windows Mobile has stank so bad. I use it every day and i hate when i have to reboot it everytime i need to do something other than reading emails. Windows Phone 7 is awesome. I'm so glad they decided to ditch the old way. You all are so angry at some of these features that you don't even understand.

Side loading. instead of downloading a cab version of a progam and installing it. You get that program through a marketplace. "Wow thats horrible" Um it seems to be working well for ever other phone out there. Developers want an easy way to get those apps to the user. Marketplace.

Multitasking. So instead of wasting all your ram on an IM client running and streaming music and looking at a website and your phone freezing up because get a phone call at the same time, you get a better experience. You need to understand that these features will be implemented differently. There will be a tile or a push notification letting you know that you have an IM. We've seen this demo'd in the keynotes. I don't need to have 3 or 4 apps running at the same time. If i can search bing, read email, use my gps, and play music at the same time then thats all i need. And thats what windows phone 7 will do.

Removable storage. I don't see this being the standard. IF there is no way to put a memory card in my phone, i don't die.

This phone has shown it self worthy of taking Windows Mobile's place. It don't like to go into an app them back out of an app. Windows phone 7 will pull all that data for me. Iphone can't do that. And please explain how this is like the Iphone.

Just wait until this phone is in your hands before you jump to conculsions. and calm down, jeez.

No, you are the one that obviously is clueless... I'll show you why.

Marketplace only downloads: Not everyone wants to dig through the Marketplace to find the few apps they need, or have to use marketplace again to download the apps anytime they switch phones. Also there are individuals and businesses that more than likely DON'T want to have to go through Marketplace to install an application on their own internal devices. I know I don't. Having all my cabs in one folder on my SD card makes life quite simple.

Multitasking: Are you serious? I don't want to be limited like I was back on my RAZR phone. There is no reason for a cap on multitasking for RAM issues, there just needs to be better managing of the existing memory. And really? Lock ups every day? I haven't rebooted my phone in over a month, and I run heavy GPS applications, exchange, IM clients, browsers, music etc and don't have an issue. Plus, as cheap as RAM is there should be no reason why we should have less than 512mb of RAM in our phones. So what happens when you want to copy some text off of a web page in the browser and paste it into bing or email? While listening to music? Or downloading a new ebook? Or pasting it into twitter? I could do all of that easily with my old ATT Tilt, and didn't suffer from a phone call crashing my phone.

I have nothing against a phone without an SD card, I owned a HTC Diamond without one and was fine with it. However, I don't want to buy a platform that is locked down to it, especially knowing that they will charge insane "upgrade" amounts for doubling your storage. Let me have my own SD cards, and that way I can load photos on the device WITHOUT having to install drivers, as they even killed USB drive support. So that means, you ALWAYS have to install the Zune software on the machine you plug into. No more using your device as a USB drive.

You're right, this isn't like the iPhone, this is like the old iPhone. And you're a complete moron if you can't grasp the basic things being lost with this total waste of an OS.

I've been on the "give them the benefit of the doubt" and "wait and see" side when it came to all the rumors. And I was extremely disappointed when I read this bit of news, but I've calmed down and read more/in between the lines, so I can rationally accept some of this set of "features."

Multitasking: it's not "no multitasking" like so many people seem to be misleading others about. MS apps and maybe (hopefully) the possibility of "approved" apps will be able to multitask. That would be fine. I, of course, disagree with one of the above comments about multitasking just being a buzzword. With the new hardware, it should be better than what we're used to (i.e., with at least double the power, it'll actually be useful and it'd really be a waste of hardware not to have it at all).

Sideloading: as long as there are good apps, I don't really care where I get it from. Hopefully, the "transparency" will be implemented well. And I really, really, really hope they allow changing of default apps before launch.

No removable storage: this really isn't justifiable. Yes, it would be great if OEMs stop slacking/being cheap by putting a little more on-board memory, but this could have easily been achieved by just making an adequate size part of their chassis requirements, instead of taking out the removable storage altogether. I already bought 16GB (and 8GB) and I've liked that I could transfer this from previous devices to next ones; I shouldn't need to pay some premium price for that storage size with each phone I get. Additionally, it takes away the "faux-limitlessness" that SD cards provide (right now, I carry the 8GB inside the little USB reader that I have attached to the lanyard on my phone; it has things like video files that I can access when I want, instead of having to swap it with a computer or filling up my main SD card).

its obvious that theyre just ditching the old users to join the large segment with everything that theyre taking out and in. takes the fun out of the phone... bad MS bad...

Microsoft making new version of windows only to remove multitasking and make a clone of i-phone?
RAAAGEE
If this is the case, my next mobile device will not be based on windows, that i can tell you. multitasking is very important for me, and it my HTc diamond can do it, i demand same functionality from new device as well. WIth prossesor power reaching 1.3 ghz mark for mobile devices, removing multitasking is the dumbest move Microsoft could make. Fortunately, i have other OS producers that i can choose from, that still have a brain not to copy iphone.

No multitasking? Wow. Palm wins again. I'm amazed at how poor Palm's advertising is considering webOS phones have most every feature that people on here are asking for but only a few are including Palm phones in the comparison, probably because they never heard/hear about them! The way I see it:

Apple iPhone: Easy to use, very restricted music player/app launcher (no multitasking, huge app catalog)

WM6x: Difficult to use but very powerful (so-so multitasking)

WP7: Very BASIC looking UI but seemingly simple to use at the cost of functionality (no multitasking!)... going the Apple route, a shame.

Andriod 1.x: So-so usability, lacking features and "eye candy"

Andriod 2.x: Better usability, "bling", and feature set than 1.x but still lacking a polish and basic webOS abilities like being able to view multiple e-mail boxes at once.

Blackberry: The current UI is a LOT better, but still a nightmare in comparison to the others. Amazing detail of control for the IT department.

Palm webOS: Awesome usability and eye candy plus feature rich (best multitasking). Web apps (only around 2k so far) load slowly (2-3 seconds) and have some performance issues. Of course, if you use an app often, just leave it running so you don't have to wait for it to load!

In other words, while all phones have their +s and -s, I think the Palm phones have the most +s and the fewest -s. Their biggest downfall? Very few people think about them when comparing to the other players. I think WP7 has a chance to compete if Microsoft will backtrack on some design decisions like lack of multitasking.

I sure hope this turns out to be either vast overstatement or we get the choice of a "Professional" OS that has at least these basic features. I simply can't believe the "no access to filesystem" claim; that simply isn't possible. Maybe it doesn't ship with a big, obvious default file manager interface, but that doesn't mean there isn't one, or you can't put one on there.
That brings me to the sideloading claim, which I guess they could do, but it would mean they'd lose me as a customer until it changed or became easily defeated, period. I don't 'use apps'; I run programs. I use the capabilities of the device to access, create, organize, manipulate and manage data - I require the precision of a conventional pointing device and keyboard, the power and stability to move information from one point (say, a web site or private FTP) to another (the device), where I can edit it, store it and move it along to a third point. I don't give a fuck how cool some kid thinks it looks, I care how cool it _runs_ under load. As long as the possibility exists, I'll occasionally listen to music or watch videos, too. I steal and illegally modify the code of others and need a device that doesn't try terribly hard to prevent this. I need a modular OS that I can strip down and redeploy so not a KB is wasted on things I will never require, like Asian character sets or drivers for obscure robotic exercise equipment. I need onboard audio loud enough not only to damage my own hearing but that of everyone in the room should I turn it up all the way. I need to be able to tether every way imaginable, I need to be able to use the device as a portable drive, I need encryption, not syndication. I am more likely to perform self-surgery than engage with Twitter in any way. I want a rugged, heavy, bulky, noisy device designed for functionality as a priority, not driven by form and image. A mobile device is not a fashion statement.

Here's a scenario for mulit-taksing:

While typing up/reading a document while listening to music, at the same time having an app that uses the GPS to monitor your location so that you are a) notified that you should do something in this location, b) the app can send an email, text etc to someone to let them know you arrived (I'm thinking picking someone up from the airport or train station).

That's a sudo-fictitious example. But it's one that's solved with mulit-tasking. Do you really want MS to tell you when and what you will need multi-tasking for?
scrub m65
And that fictitious scenario? Easily handled on Android using an app called Locale.

@gregorypleau
Stop tinkering and write a serious app for Android and I think you'll change your mind. As a fellow developer I'll tell you it's bone-head *easy* to write for Android. Also investigate it's architecture. That's what sent me over the edge. Although I was hoping MS wouldn't be this stupid as I was hoping to port some of my work to WP7.